11-26-2021, 12:46 PM
(11-23-2021 01:18 PM)CopyMyCash Wrote: [ -> ]*** THE REAL BILL AND MELINDA GATES WERE HUNG IN AFRICA IN 2013! ***
After trying out a vaccine among 5000 children!
And Elvis is alive and well.
11-26-2021, 12:46 PM
11-26-2021, 01:37 PM
(11-24-2021 12:08 PM)mthomas Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Vivekananda' pid='3362545' dateline='1637705560']
mthomas, [/color]
"not to mention about the masks (remember that BS?...OUTRIGHT LIE!)"
The BSs I read about the masks were in the form of rumors about the supposed (and ridiculous) side effects we would suffer from their use.
No, he LIED that they didn't work in order to supposedly give them to healthcare workers and said it was the right thing to do....BS! Once a liar always a liar and what else is he lying about in the name of doing the right thing?
Oh, now I understand. I supposed he was talking something about problems with wearing masks.
But afaik, he changed what he was talking "as more information about COVID-19 became available during the pandemic".
It happened something like this here, too. A brazilian doctor said something like "don't worry, when covid arrives here it will be like a small flu".
But when we were confronted with reality, he said that there was a lot to worry about, and changed his talking.
And - again - what Fauci said is not a proof that vaccines have problems.
-==========-
I think that not having internet some time ago was really an advantage - even though, when I was a boy, there was a rumor about the supposed miraculous powers of purple ipe tree tea - it supposedly cured almost everything from headaches to cancer to ingrown toenails. Poor ipe tree! It almost went extinct! It was surprising to see so many people believing a rumor without any scientific basis - in my current view of these days, of course. At that time a lot of good people believed, until the subject slowly died away. Looking at it from today's perspective, it was even more surprising to see how this happened when the internet did not exist.
Recently, someone started a rumor about a medicine created here (fosfoetanolamina). They said it cured many types of cancer. The government was so pressured by public opinion that it ended up allowing its use before complete studies were carried out. Fortunately, the medicine proved to be harmless (and useless). Today it is still sold as a food supplement.
Think of a "small pharma" still profiting from desperate people looking for a miracle at any cost, who still believe in an old rumor...
Afaik, this whole antivax story started with a very unscientific rumor about vaccines causing autism.
For some people, hoaxes are real - even if they aren't. This people support antivaxes.
Some of them will embrace the cause of "we have the truth they haven't told and the big pharma is hiding from the public." Antivaxes will do anything to proof that they are right. They talk about "big pharma", but stay quiet about "big hoaxers".
They are using internet to mine information to reinforce their points of view.
I just imagine how many people is able to have profits with polemic videos and false articles - from antivaxes to flat earthers, to USA frauds in elections, to NASA lying about man in the moon, etc.
And this is a big "etc". Here we have a president that said that he has "proofs" that the election was fraudulent. Yes, the election he won. The proofs? Nobody knows where the imaginary proofs are. And when Trump lost, he said that USA elections were fraudulent...
This guy is so bad as a politician that sometimes we think he's still president just because he feeds his supporters with the polemics he writes nearly every day about fantastic conspiracy theories against him.
So we have to live with the internet, for better or for worse.
Maybe some anti-NASA conspirators / flat earthers / antivaxxers are here in BBHF learning about influence tactics, copyright, and anything they can use to forge an argument.
I think the truth humbly steps away from the discussion, saying, "Useless conversations! Only time will reveal where I'm hidden!"
11-27-2021, 02:58 AM
Vivekananda, it sounds like you are the one that is hell bent on pushing Government supported/sponsored misinformation/omissions/falsehoods, moralistic propaganda and crackdowns on different opinions???
I am NOT saying I agree with any of the conspiracy theorists you listed however I believe they have a right to free speech (at least here in the USA, under the US Constitutions First Amendment) including on Social Media platforms. (Yes, they are private companies but are also arguably monopolies in their business niches and therefore can/should be regulated to adhere to free speech rules in the USA, as based on the First amendment and anti-trust [monopoly] laws).
You seem to believe everything you see/hear coming from Governments, Agencies, Scientists as all facts supported by science which we have seen in the past year (as well as other recent past examples, ie mini ice age coming, global warming, ozone hole, mass starvation, etc.) just isn't the case....for so many different cases/issues/medical treatments, etc. (i.e. masks, shutdowns, ventilator's, vaccines, etc.).
I'm not saying everything we are told is BS but I am saying we are being manipulated, lied to, taken advantage of and forced to conform to an UNPROVEN set of rules/regulations set by people who have questionable motives, outright conflicts of interests, monetary investments in and power-hungry aspirations.
You say the conspiracy theorists (the ones you listed above) are all involved in trying to make themselves money, lie, have no proof and all have personal ulterior motives but then give a free pass to those in power in the government or agencies without question, or actual proof or historical evidence of past lies/fraud/manipulation/propaganda/deception/corruption? People are people and human nature is human nature from ancient times to today, meaning there are good and bad apples in every group/agency/profession/government, etc., and yet today certain people, groups, professions are given a free ride as being incorruptible and incapable of lying, greed, power or other human frailties. As history has shown with ample evidence this simply isn't the case.
I don't know the scientific explanations or mechanics of how the drugs (vaccines, ivermectin, other's) fight the virus or not but I do have basic common sense and can read statistical reports and remember things politicians/scientists/doctors/Dr. Death Fauci has reported in the past that have been identified to be LIES, falsehoods, misinformation, omissions, propaganda. It doesn't take a scientist or PhD to see this and analyze the information we are having shoveled to us through "official" statements by the above listed "experts".
I'm not saying don't trust anything the above-listed people say, but as President Reagan said, Trust, but Verify". (which was a Russian proverb).
The question I give to you is let's say for instance, Ivermectin which has been reported to be outstandingly successful (through anecdotal evidence) in several Indian States, most countries in Africa and now (since Aug 2021) also being successfully reported in Japan, let's say it DOES actually work. Let's say, it BOTH successfully works as a prophylactic AND cure once infected for Covid, would you agree that criminal charges should be filed for WHO Officials, CDC Officials, Dr. Fauci and all those other doctor's and politicians that REFUSED to test, use, authorize the use of Ivermectin for Covid patients that ultimately died these past two years? Would you not agree that this should be classified as a crime against humanity that a drug that was available was purposely and emphatically denied to patients that were given no chance of survival? If evidence was found that proved pharmaceutical companies KNEW ivermectin was an effective remedy towards the beginning of the outbreak (and politicians) would you agree that if found guilty they should be executed for the deaths of millions?
I am NOT saying I agree with any of the conspiracy theorists you listed however I believe they have a right to free speech (at least here in the USA, under the US Constitutions First Amendment) including on Social Media platforms. (Yes, they are private companies but are also arguably monopolies in their business niches and therefore can/should be regulated to adhere to free speech rules in the USA, as based on the First amendment and anti-trust [monopoly] laws).
You seem to believe everything you see/hear coming from Governments, Agencies, Scientists as all facts supported by science which we have seen in the past year (as well as other recent past examples, ie mini ice age coming, global warming, ozone hole, mass starvation, etc.) just isn't the case....for so many different cases/issues/medical treatments, etc. (i.e. masks, shutdowns, ventilator's, vaccines, etc.).
I'm not saying everything we are told is BS but I am saying we are being manipulated, lied to, taken advantage of and forced to conform to an UNPROVEN set of rules/regulations set by people who have questionable motives, outright conflicts of interests, monetary investments in and power-hungry aspirations.
You say the conspiracy theorists (the ones you listed above) are all involved in trying to make themselves money, lie, have no proof and all have personal ulterior motives but then give a free pass to those in power in the government or agencies without question, or actual proof or historical evidence of past lies/fraud/manipulation/propaganda/deception/corruption? People are people and human nature is human nature from ancient times to today, meaning there are good and bad apples in every group/agency/profession/government, etc., and yet today certain people, groups, professions are given a free ride as being incorruptible and incapable of lying, greed, power or other human frailties. As history has shown with ample evidence this simply isn't the case.
I don't know the scientific explanations or mechanics of how the drugs (vaccines, ivermectin, other's) fight the virus or not but I do have basic common sense and can read statistical reports and remember things politicians/scientists/doctors/Dr. Death Fauci has reported in the past that have been identified to be LIES, falsehoods, misinformation, omissions, propaganda. It doesn't take a scientist or PhD to see this and analyze the information we are having shoveled to us through "official" statements by the above listed "experts".
I'm not saying don't trust anything the above-listed people say, but as President Reagan said, Trust, but Verify". (which was a Russian proverb).
The question I give to you is let's say for instance, Ivermectin which has been reported to be outstandingly successful (through anecdotal evidence) in several Indian States, most countries in Africa and now (since Aug 2021) also being successfully reported in Japan, let's say it DOES actually work. Let's say, it BOTH successfully works as a prophylactic AND cure once infected for Covid, would you agree that criminal charges should be filed for WHO Officials, CDC Officials, Dr. Fauci and all those other doctor's and politicians that REFUSED to test, use, authorize the use of Ivermectin for Covid patients that ultimately died these past two years? Would you not agree that this should be classified as a crime against humanity that a drug that was available was purposely and emphatically denied to patients that were given no chance of survival? If evidence was found that proved pharmaceutical companies KNEW ivermectin was an effective remedy towards the beginning of the outbreak (and politicians) would you agree that if found guilty they should be executed for the deaths of millions?
11-27-2021, 03:48 AM
How the COVID-19 vaccines were created so quickly
"In the 20th century, most vaccines took well over a decade to research, test, and produce. But the vaccines for COVID-19 cleared the threshold for emergency use in less than 11 months. The secret behind this speed is a medical technology that’s been developing for decades: the mRNA vaccine."
"In the 20th century, most vaccines took well over a decade to research, test, and produce. But the vaccines for COVID-19 cleared the threshold for emergency use in less than 11 months. The secret behind this speed is a medical technology that’s been developing for decades: the mRNA vaccine."
Magic Button :
11-27-2021, 04:47 AM
oops... editing to write a new message
11-27-2021, 04:48 AM
mthomas, What I write here is the best way I know to express myself, although I still don't fully master the English language.
I'm not a professional writer, I write according to the way I perceive what's happening around me.
I am not the center of the world, and I may or may not be right - just like you or anyone else.
You are free to interpret what I write as you wish; it's the same freedom I have with regard to your opinions.
With a few small changes, I could use exactly the same words as you about vaccine critics trying to push us "disinformation / omissions / falsehoods supported / sponsored by antivaxxes, alarmist propaganda and repression of different opinions".
You know, the forum user "smithnowt" is a clear example of an attempt to suppress different opinions, including the claim that opposing opinions would be violating an abstract "spirit of the thread".
I firmly believe that this is just a demonstration of an inability to bring rational arguments into the discussion.
I don't care about this "spirit", I can't see any problem in opinions against my own.
I believe in the right to "free speech", but even that is more restricted when it comes to something from the point of view of a Brazilian.
Here we saw supporters of the current president calling for the return of a law from the days of the dictatorship, where we had total censorship imposed on us.
Interestingly, when these statements spawned legal threats to more radical supporters, they began to argue that this was a threat to freedom of expression.
In short, it's about people wanting the freedom to express themselves... to end freedom of expression.
I live in a really strange country. It's not a place for amateurs.
"You seem to believe you see/hear coming from Governments, Agencies, Scientists".
It's not about this. I believe what they say, when it doesn't hurt common sense, when they don't endorse unfounded hopes.
I doubt the "truth" propagated by the Brazilian president, who dismissed 2 health ministers (doctors) who refused to recommend the use of chloroquine, putting a submissive general in the ministry.
We had so many problems with the general that the president put in a fourth minister - this time, a doctor submissive to his will.
In this pandemic (which here only began in earnest in March 2020), we had 4 ministers!
I do not intend to talk about of all the problems in the world, I do not intend to discuss here the problems of the ozone layer, of global warming, etc.
I have not enough time to treat all of this questions, so I'm trying to publish some problems, one at a time.
First, the question about using quotes around the word "pandemic"
"I don't know a reason to use quotes around the word pandemic."
"Because this has all been hugely blown way out of proportion."
Out of proportion? All over the world, with some rare exceptions?
Let me remember what was happening (before vaccination)
Here in Brazil, the state government of Bahia rented containers to store bodies.
How could that be "hugely blown way out of proportion?"
In the city of Manaus (capital of the state of Amazonas), amidst the chaos of 2020, some coffins were piled up in mass graves, much to the revolt of the families.
Now, in November 2011, the city mayor has decided to exhume the bodies and bury them in individual graves.
Guayquil (Ecuador), April 2020: There weren't enough coffins and the corpses were abandoned in the streets!
How can this be a "disproportionate" problem?
I'm not a professional writer, I write according to the way I perceive what's happening around me.
I am not the center of the world, and I may or may not be right - just like you or anyone else.
You are free to interpret what I write as you wish; it's the same freedom I have with regard to your opinions.
With a few small changes, I could use exactly the same words as you about vaccine critics trying to push us "disinformation / omissions / falsehoods supported / sponsored by antivaxxes, alarmist propaganda and repression of different opinions".
You know, the forum user "smithnowt" is a clear example of an attempt to suppress different opinions, including the claim that opposing opinions would be violating an abstract "spirit of the thread".
I firmly believe that this is just a demonstration of an inability to bring rational arguments into the discussion.
I don't care about this "spirit", I can't see any problem in opinions against my own.
I believe in the right to "free speech", but even that is more restricted when it comes to something from the point of view of a Brazilian.
Here we saw supporters of the current president calling for the return of a law from the days of the dictatorship, where we had total censorship imposed on us.
Interestingly, when these statements spawned legal threats to more radical supporters, they began to argue that this was a threat to freedom of expression.
In short, it's about people wanting the freedom to express themselves... to end freedom of expression.
I live in a really strange country. It's not a place for amateurs.
"You seem to believe you see/hear coming from Governments, Agencies, Scientists".
It's not about this. I believe what they say, when it doesn't hurt common sense, when they don't endorse unfounded hopes.
I doubt the "truth" propagated by the Brazilian president, who dismissed 2 health ministers (doctors) who refused to recommend the use of chloroquine, putting a submissive general in the ministry.
We had so many problems with the general that the president put in a fourth minister - this time, a doctor submissive to his will.
In this pandemic (which here only began in earnest in March 2020), we had 4 ministers!
I do not intend to talk about of all the problems in the world, I do not intend to discuss here the problems of the ozone layer, of global warming, etc.
I have not enough time to treat all of this questions, so I'm trying to publish some problems, one at a time.
First, the question about using quotes around the word "pandemic"
"I don't know a reason to use quotes around the word pandemic."
"Because this has all been hugely blown way out of proportion."
Out of proportion? All over the world, with some rare exceptions?
Let me remember what was happening (before vaccination)
Here in Brazil, the state government of Bahia rented containers to store bodies.
How could that be "hugely blown way out of proportion?"
In the city of Manaus (capital of the state of Amazonas), amidst the chaos of 2020, some coffins were piled up in mass graves, much to the revolt of the families.
Now, in November 2011, the city mayor has decided to exhume the bodies and bury them in individual graves.
Guayquil (Ecuador), April 2020: There weren't enough coffins and the corpses were abandoned in the streets!
How can this be a "disproportionate" problem?
11-27-2021, 10:38 AM
Was watching a sheffield united player collapse during a match the other day, but it seems to be a norm to have professional players collapsing, clutching their chest and even dying during a game these days. Nothing to do with the experimental shots though, nope, of course not.
At this point let's all continue to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that vaccines are completely safe and there no adverse vaccine reactions since there are no evidence. Let's just listen and follow whatever figureheads like fauci says cause he's the expert. Who are we to question them.
Let's pretend big pharma has never lost thousands of cases and had to pay billions in fines and in lawsuit payouts. How dare people accuse these noble companies of hiding data, erasing data, lying under oath or falsifying data, utter nonsense.
We should continue taking our booster shots, cause that's what makes total sense, we need to do that in order to get our normal lives back. Boosters every few months no problem. After all, no jab no job. Let's all build back better!
Found a good book to read recommended by the mighty bill gates himself. Good read, highly recommended.
How to lie with statistics- Bill Gates:
Book download:
At this point let's all continue to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that vaccines are completely safe and there no adverse vaccine reactions since there are no evidence. Let's just listen and follow whatever figureheads like fauci says cause he's the expert. Who are we to question them.
Let's pretend big pharma has never lost thousands of cases and had to pay billions in fines and in lawsuit payouts. How dare people accuse these noble companies of hiding data, erasing data, lying under oath or falsifying data, utter nonsense.
We should continue taking our booster shots, cause that's what makes total sense, we need to do that in order to get our normal lives back. Boosters every few months no problem. After all, no jab no job. Let's all build back better!
Found a good book to read recommended by the mighty bill gates himself. Good read, highly recommended.
How to lie with statistics- Bill Gates:
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3f5iMavdABook download:
Code:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/o7ecpowb5sud12l/Darell+Huff+-+How+to+Lie+With+Statistics.pdf/file11-28-2021, 12:56 PM
(11-27-2021 10:38 AM)tsunami7 Wrote: [ -> ]Was watching a sheffield united player collapse
Probably you know that the most popular sport in Brazil is football - or "soccer" in USA. Today took place the final match of the championship called Libertadores da América, between South American teams. The winning team received the usual awards, in addition to the right to compete in the 2022 World Teams championship.
Today's game was in Montevideo, Uruguay, between the finalists of the competition - two Brazilian teams: Palmeiras and Flamengo. At the end of the 90-minute game, the game was tied (1x1). So there was an extension (30 more minutes).
The athletes were exhausted, some of them with painful leg cramps.
Palmeiras won, and now the team will play against 6 other teams in the world championship that will take place at the beginning of 2022, in the United Arab Emirates.
Guess what? None of the players fainted or died. I think the antivaxx people are sad because the players are vaccinated and well.
So this "norm" of having players collapsing or dying isn't happening here.
Very strange, don't you think? Well, I don't.
And yes, I can found reports of players who died while playing football, long before there was a pandemic in Brazil. No need to create a false relationship between deaths and vaccines at that time...
11-28-2021, 01:13 PM
Good news! I did a little research and found out that United Sheffield is an UK football team. Now I read "John Fleck has been discharged from hospital after collapsing on the pitch during Sheffield United's Championship match at Reading on Tuesday night."
Talking about lies, I think that we can research a little more and find reports of problems, like this one:
"Christian Eriksen, a 29-year-old Danish soccer player, suddenly collapsed on the pitch during a June 12 European Championship match between the Denmark and Finland national teams. Tournament organizers and Denmark’s soccer federation later reported that Eriksen suffered cardiac arrest and was awake and responsive at the hospital.
It didn’t take long after Eriksen’s collapse for misinformation about his COVID-19 vaccination status to start circulating online.
An Instagram post shows a screenshot of a tweet that says: "Christian Eriksen, the Danish player who suddenly collapsed on the pitch, plays for Inter Milan. The chief medic and cardiologist of that Italian team confirmed on an Italian radio station that Eriksen has received the Pfizer vaccine on May 31."
The tweet, now deleted, came from Luboš Motl, a Czech physicist and blogger who has shared false information about COVID-19 and vaccines. Other tweets claimed that the station the chief medic spoke to was Radio Sportiva. "
Talking about lies, I think that we can research a little more and find reports of problems, like this one:
"Christian Eriksen, a 29-year-old Danish soccer player, suddenly collapsed on the pitch during a June 12 European Championship match between the Denmark and Finland national teams. Tournament organizers and Denmark’s soccer federation later reported that Eriksen suffered cardiac arrest and was awake and responsive at the hospital.
It didn’t take long after Eriksen’s collapse for misinformation about his COVID-19 vaccination status to start circulating online.
An Instagram post shows a screenshot of a tweet that says: "Christian Eriksen, the Danish player who suddenly collapsed on the pitch, plays for Inter Milan. The chief medic and cardiologist of that Italian team confirmed on an Italian radio station that Eriksen has received the Pfizer vaccine on May 31."
The tweet, now deleted, came from Luboš Motl, a Czech physicist and blogger who has shared false information about COVID-19 and vaccines. Other tweets claimed that the station the chief medic spoke to was Radio Sportiva. "
11-28-2021, 01:37 PM
(11-28-2021 01:13 PM)Vivekananda Wrote: [ -> ]Talking about lies, I think that we can research a little more and find reports of problems, like this one:
What lies you talking about mate, and yes I was referring to john fleck
(11-28-2021 12:56 PM)Vivekananda Wrote: [ -> ]And yes, I can found reports of players who died while playing football, long before there was a pandemic in Brazil. No need to create a false relationship between deaths and vaccines at that time...
Keep drinking your kool-aid then, Oh and don't forget to take your shots.