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@Vivekananda,

Mate, there's so much nonsense being touted as *fact* on this forum, it's shocking.

I actually looked at some of these threads after I've done some independent research re:vax with an open mind to see if they found out something that I missed.

What I found was a hefty dose of BS.

I even pointed some of this out in one of these threads, you think I got anywhere?

I just came to the conclusion that the majority of the crowd here seem to be so entrenched in their beliefs that it's just not worth arguing.

It seems to me that most of these people made an emotional decision and then they try to justify their POV with some of this anti-vax content online. And I think that emotional decision comes from general distrust towards the gov't and big pharma.

And can you blame them? Gov't and big pharma wasted all the credibility they ever had. Even the institutions meant to provide the checks and balances are ripe with corruption.

The problem is that trust is all we have. I can virtually guarantee you that not one person on this forum truly understand how any of these vaccines work (me included ofc). Sure, I can look at the data, but I have to trust that the data is legit for it to mean anything + I have to be able to understand it too...

So I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, but best of luck!

The user you mentioned seem to have unlimited time at their hands and I'm sure s/he'll arrive soon enough to flood your thread too. :)

(11-16-2021 10:49 AM)StillStanding Wrote: [ -> ]On the lighter side

Two mice were sitting outside a barn and one mouse asked the other if he was going to get the Covid shot. The second mouse answered that he was going to wait until the human trials were over.

Funny and yet sadly true!

(11-16-2021 01:09 PM)Vivekananda Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-16-2021 05:50 AM)mthomas Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Vivekananda' pid='3359634' dateline='1636939608']
Hello mthomas.
What is happening in Germany (and other countries)?

Oh, I forgot to ask you about the most curious point of view that I have found: mthomas, do you agree with smithnowt in his affirmation: "How can there be some specific 'vaccine' for a supposed 'illness' which is really just an illness of unsuspecting people's minds via misguided thoughts ??"

I'm still trying to understand why the hospitals were being crowded not with people becoming sick with covid, but with... "misguided thoughts" - or other reasons (esoteric or not) that I would like to know.

I will answer your question this way.....
I have had Covid and took Ivermectin paste (yes the horse variety since I couldn't get the pill kind prescribed) and other than a fever of 101 for one day, some couching that lasted for 2 weeks (although this could also have been caused by my seasonal hayfever allergies) and losing my taste/smell for about 2 weeks, it was very mild and compared to the flu which I had several years back it was nothing more (for me) then a mild cold. I had no complications, no real weakness, or any lasting negative effects. I am in good shape however and also take several vitamins/supplements everyday including Vit B's, C, D, Multi, Zinc, NAC and Fish Oil. I would get Covid over the Flu anyday if I had the choice....(again that is from MY experience only, not saying other's have extremely harsh and life threatening issues from it). Funny, I seem to want to watch old episodes of Mr. Ed lately, but I have no idea why....LOL!

So yes, I think Covid is a real disease that effects those with health issues (especially over weight individuals who also typically have multiple comorbidities related to their weight like diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc.) but when you take ALL the available information together you see that certain groups (especially by age) are hardly if at all effected by this disease and therefore should NOT be FORCED to take an experimental drug that could also have life threatening consequences or long term adverse health effects (which are currently UNKNOWN at this time) in order to "protect" them from something that has an almost zero chance of being deadly to them....(like .01% for young age groups). It SHOULD BE A PERSONAL, INDIVIDUAL"S OWN CHOICE!!!!!!!!

Quote:The question about "my" choice involves the freedom to choose, as a personal right - but is this a real unlimited right? Is this right respecting the right that other persons have to live?

I also want to address this comment from you as you have stated it several times and here is my take on on your question...
The science shows us that getting "vaccinated" does NOT inoculate you from getting Covid and once infected does NOT stop you from spreading it to others. So from this factual science there is NO valid reason for someone to be forced to get the shot in order to supposedly "Save" those because "ONLY" the unvaccinated can spread the disease....(which again, is NOT a true statement based on the science).
As per the video's I listed in prior posts, some states and countries (like UK) are showing HIGHER Covid infection rates amongst the vaccinated then compared to the unvaccinated. So your original statement/question isn't valid with this new scientific and statistical data.

Also, remember that every person who wants to get a shot/booster can do so (except in some poorer countries, but that's a different issue) so it is no longer a question of a person spreading the disease by not being vaccinated.....(although again as I stated in another post, the definitions of "vaccinated" and "herd immunity" have been changed by the CDC and WHO to fit their propaganda)...it doesn't matter since ANYONE (vaccinated or unvaccinated can STILL get Covid and spread it once infected). So the argument of "saving" people by being vaccinated to stop the spread is invalid. Another invalid argument is that of forcing people who have already had Covid to now get the shots/boosters, it goes against established science and current science that shows natural immunity is better than immunity through the shots/boosters.





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(11-17-2021 02:28 AM)mthomas Wrote: [ -> ]Funny, I seem to want to watch old episodes of Mr. Ed lately, but I have no idea why....LOL!

Mr. Ed... I have a very faint memory of that show. I believe it was aired in Brazil when I was a child, I had to do some research to confirm it was something about a talking horse.

Back to covid:
I think that I can understand you point of view, but I still strongly disagree.
I think that is better to put a limit in our "freedom", in pandemic times - and ONLY in pandemic times.
The "natural immunity" was not enough to control the pandemic and does not explain why the covid cases started to drop strongly in Brazil only after the vaccination was applied to a great part of population.
I read a curious antivax argument: "the virus suffered all the possible mutations, so the problem is naturaly finishing." But the same people staied quiet when they saw the infection spreading again in non-vaccinated people in Germany and UK.
In fact, Germany is seeing a 4th wave - affecting mainly the not vaccinated people.
Angela Merckel is asking german people to change the antivax ideas and accept the shot...
The same is happening in UK, as far as I can trust in information that is available.
I don't believe in videos or articles created by antivax people, the same way that you apparently don't believe in what governments and 'big pharma' people says.
I was vaccinated but I'm not a virus killer by some king of antiviral magic.
If I'm touching a virus in, let me say, a contaminated book or coin or a money bill, my hand can carry the virus and if I greet someone with a handshake, I can contaminate the guy/gal, and if he/she is not vaccinated, it can be a great problem.
But if the virus enter my body, my natural immunity reinforced by the vaccine is strong enough to avoid the infection to be spread in my lungs, and to reduce the possibility of transmission.
I'm not carrying the virus the way I would without being vaccinated.
It is a question of spreading a disease by not being vaccinated.
I am more convinced every day that most articles and videos against the vaccine are made by those who want to make a profit from polemics.

Quote:The science shows us that getting "vaccinated" does NOT inoculate you from getting Covid and once infected does NOT stop you from spreading it to others.

I disagree. Science is showing us that vaccines are very effective.
A study in Brazil, in the city of Serrana, showed Covid-19 cases to plummet 80% and deaths 95%. It was done when we didn't have enough vaccines for the entire Brazilian population. Almost all adult population was vaccinated - except pregnant women and people with health problems for whom the vaccine was contraindicated.
This city was chosen for a real life study for several reasons, including the fact that about 10 mil residents work in a city with a distance of 25 km away from Serrana.
When the study was conducted, while the cases in Serrana plummeted, the nearby cities could see a raise of contamination cases.
This meant that even the traffic of the inhabitants between the cities doesn't resulted it in an increase in the number of cases - it was as if an "immune shield" had been created in Serrana.

Finally, I think that people who have already had Covid has to get the shots/boosters, because we have new variants.
Just like the influenza shots that are applied in old people (in Brazil, at least) year after year. The influenza suffer mutations, and we have to use new vaccines.
The "established science and current science" just doesn't show us a natural immunity being able to avoid new influenza variants.

(11-16-2021 05:41 AM)jimmythesaint Wrote: [ -> ]https://news.yahoo.com/single-most-quali...00060.html

"Single most qualified"... according to himself, I think

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arch...ic/619734/

Do you got a mail / Letter from your
health insurance or others for Vaccination Invitation?

I have never got one!

I have only got long time ago a letter for getting 10 FP2 Masks free.
From Federal Government - for Vaccination not!

(11-16-2021 07:43 PM)Dreonar Wrote: [ -> ]@Vivekananda,

Quote:It seems to me that most of these people made an emotional decision and then they try to justify their POV with some of this anti-vax content online. And I think that emotional decision comes from general distrust towards the gov't and big pharma.

Here in Brazil we have a president elected mainly by people that believe in his controversial opinions, and his false talk about extinguish the corruption from previous governments.

Quote:And can you blame them? Gov't and big pharma wasted all the credibility they ever had. Even the institutions meant to provide the checks and balances are ripe with corruption.

Here the "big pharma" has not been discredited. The absolute majority of the Brazilian people believe more in the vaccine than in the president. Interestingly, the press asked the president's daughter-in-law (Heloisa Bolsonaro) if her children's vaccinations were up to date. She said something like "yes, of course!". When someone commented about anti-vaccine movement, she declared: "This is thing from crazy people!" Until then, she was unaware that there was an anti-vax movement that supports the president. A short time later, she changed the statement: "I was wrong. What I meant is that this is something from people who think differently."

Quote:So I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, but best of luck!

Good point. I'm not sure if I'm trying to accomplish something here. I believe in democracy and information. An user in another thread (against vaccines) showed a lack of respect regarding democratic discussions, and accused me of violating "the spirit of the thread as demonstrated by the OP", between LOTS of other fallacies that he published. He avoided to answer simple, direct questions and called me troll an blablabla. It seems to me that he has a childlike spirit, and he wants to have the last word, to have that abstract feeling of "I was the last to speak, I won!". Just like me, who always make sure I have the last word when talking to women (I'm used to say "Yes honey, you're right!") :) .
Oh well... I'm the OP here, I don't care if someone violate this abstract "spirit" in this thread. I think that dialog is a good thing.

You're right, Vivekananda, dialogue is a good thing. However, it get's to a point where
we have pretty much exhausted the debate and just keep saying the same things over
and over again in different ways.

You are not going to change my mind and I am not going to try to change yours.
I have no interest in trying to do so. So, I would say that this discussion is pretty much over
and we should just agree to disagree. After all, time will sort this out for us.

That said, I would take issue with a couple of points you made (then I'm done)

"The "established science and current science" just doesn't show us a natural immunity
being able to avoid new influenza variants".

That is quite wrong!

The flu comes round every year and has done for thousands of years - thought to have
originated in China. Thanks again China.

It is out in the population every year, and every year there is a new variant of the strain.
Vaccination against the flu virus began in the 1930's, yet we still have the flu with us today.
The elderly and the vulnerable get the flu vaccine every year and yet, still many of them die
every year, because the vaccine is always three steps behind the mutating virus.

Do you want to be taking the Covid jab several times every year? I bet you would too.

My wife is a nurse and spent years working with end of life patients. Every year they got
their flu jabs and every year the flu took half of them - around 25 each year.
That was once, maybe twice, every year, if you include the Norovirus.

My wife never had a flu jab. She never got the flu. I never got the flu. Our kids never got the flu,
despite her working in that flu ridden ward. That's every year!
The last time I got the flu was about 25 years ago. That was really bad. I mean really fkin bad.
But I got over it. However, once, maybe twice, in 58 years isn't bad considering it is with us every
year and we both worked with the NHS.

If this isn't down to natural immunity then what is it? An act of God?
Of course it's natural immunity protecting people. Some people have weak immune systems and hence,
they get the flu more often. When I got the flu all those years ago, it was a particularly bad strain (for me)
and it overcome my immune system.

No vaccine would have helped as it mutates quicker then the "scientists" as you call them, can keep up.

Every year, the flu vaccine is treating the flu virus strain from the year before.

One point worth noting. When I got the flu 25 years ago. My wife didn't get it.
Our young son did and he was poorly too. She nursed us both but didn't get it.
An act of God? No, natural immunity!

Actually, let me correct myself there; of course she got it, but it didn't affect her.

That is the important point here!

Just because someone gets infected, it doesn't mean that it will get past that individuals immune system.
It would be crazy to think that she could live in the same house and nurse us both and avoid that flu virus.
It was just the same as in the wards. You can't avoid contact with it.

The nature of a virus like flu or Covid means that if there is a pandemic - especially a pandemic that has
gone on for about two years, then the only way you can not come into contact with the virus
is to live in total isolation and never go anywhere other humans have been.

People are actually going to pubs and nightclubs wearing masks and thinking it's protecting them from a virus
during a pandemic! Wearing a mask to go into a restaurant then taking it off to sit and eat, then putting it
back on to go to the toilet, or leave.

That is hilarious! How stupid are we?

Last week my sister got Covid.
She was really ill and said it was like a really bad flu. She still isn't fully recovered yet.

She has had both 'vaccine' shots.
She got Covid from another vaccinated person at a wedding she was at. As did 30 others.
Everyone at the wedding was double jabbed. One elderly person died from it. He was Triple jabbed.
He died because of a blood clot. Sound familiar? Covid on the death cert though, of course.

The default cry from everyone I know that has had Covid after being 'vaccinated' is usually;
it would have been worse if I hadn't had my jab. I say, really? How'd they know that?
I think they don't want to admit they are beginning to realise they'd have been had.

Also, you are wrong about the UK rise in infection being amongst the unvaccinated.
That is just bs propaganda and more maniputated figures by the government.
Until they actually separate the, "deaths with Covid" from the "deaths because of Covid",
then I'm not buying the statistics at all.

One believable statistic I have seen though, from a leaked coroner report in the UK, is that there
has so far been 14,000 vaccine caused deaths.

They keep that one off the BBC though, eh?

You have your opinion, I have mine. Lets leave it there.

Cheers!

Its a mirror image of internet marketing. Experts everywhere, but no magic bullet I had no idea there was so many medical/statistical gurus in the world. I am humbled.

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