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(12-15-2021 06:27 PM)GordonShumway Wrote: [ -> ]Nice reply, but needs a few points of clarification.

Iraq War - Started by Bush - Republican.
Haliburton - Major share holder d**** Cheney - Bush time Vice President - Rupublican.
Afghanistan withdrawal - yep, bad thing. Started by a deal made by Trump with the Taliban - Trump, Republican.
If we didn't pull out now, then when? Been their for 20 years. Spending trillions. Osama bin (hiding) Laden is dead and not much more we could have done. Yes we left a pile of stuff behind, but without the parts and maintenance to keep it up, it has a very short shelf life. Upkeep and maintenance was a HUGE issue for the well trained military. How well do you think the current government that can't even feed it's own people will be able to do?
And you seem to forget that Trump unilaterally pulled out of Northern Iraq and Syria giving all of that territory back to Russian influence.

You are right, America is hurting... But China has it's own problems. Real Estate market tanking, exports way down, unemployment expected to hit 400 Million by year end.

As for you Brits... How is Brexit going for you? Everything you hoped for? Negotiations with the rest of Europe going well? Mmmmm doesn't look that way.

Biden has his issues. Granted. But a better choice than Trump. And Biden clearly said he wanted to be a transition President. We needed someone for the people to get behind so we could get Trump out. Job done. Next we need a strong leader that is concentrated on what the people need most.

As a world, if we don't face the issues happening in the environment together, then all of this will not matter.

Our entire system is based on the idea that we need to consume more and more stuff. Stop buying and everything collapses.

Moving forward we need to start doing things smarter. No stick with the old "Who has the most Bling wins" mindset. That is going to be very hard for most people as it is something that we are just not familiar with.

Since the Industrial Revolution, we have year after year gotten indoctrinated in to the buy more and more club.

But we are seeing people wake up as unemployment around the globe increases. Just look at the Tiny Home crazy going on. People want to have less, do less, and gain more freedom and not have to work 40 years for a retirement that quickly leads to death.

I have big hopes for the future. Humanity has a great future if we don't kill ourselves first.

G.S.

Hi GS,
Thanks for the input.
I'd just like to put the record straight too, about a few points you raised about my post.

First of all, I am aware that the Iraq war was started by Bush and that he was a Republican.
I also know that Haliburton had directors in the Bush Admin - although I thought it was Rumsfeld.

George W. Bush had already promised his father G H. Bush that when elected
(that's how messed up this whole election/succession thing is) that he would go back to Iraq and finish the job.

Yes, Trump did the deal with the Taliban but surely that was a great success. As you yourself said, they had to
withdraw sometime, and under Trumps agreement, not a single US soldier was killed.
How is that a bad thing?

Biden and his woke, clown brigade had all the groundwork done for then; all they had to do was leave in an organised and tactical manner.
They fckd up big time and the world saw it.

There can never be an excuse for leaving of billions of dollars of weapons and equipment.
Weapons can be used and equipment can be sold to fund terrorism. Besides, didn't you see their parade of captured goodies?
They could obviously find people to repair and fly the copters.

Even if they couldn't it is hugely symbolic.

You seem to think I have picked a side here. Not the case.
I just see it for what it is - the decay of the United States.

As for your comment on the Brits and Brexit; you're right, that isn't working out well.
However, if you keep an eye on what is happening in Europe, you will also see that the wheels are coming off for the EU too.
The EU was begining to show cracks before the UK left. It is now becoming more fragmented than ever.
Much of that is down to mass immigration and swarms of displaced people coming from countries 'liberated' by the coalition.

As for the coalition pulling out of Syria, that left the Russians to get on with the job of clearing out ISIS - which they did in record time.
The US had been caught out and humiliated when they tried to work with some of the lesser-evil bad guys and fund them to fight ISIS.
That backfired horribly (although anyone could see it was a dumb tactic) and that is what led to the Benghazi debacle.

No, the Russians just took a practical approach and did the job properly.
That's why ISIS were driven out so quickly after we all left.

You seem to forget that Trump stood in the DMZ and shook hands with Kim.
All previous leaders had kicked that issue down the road and avoided it.
Trump took it on an did what everyone said couldn't be done.

Trump also was the catalyst for the peace deal that is going on in the middle east right now.

Anyone else would be a certain for the Nobel Peace Prize for one of those achievements alone.

Trump built most of the wall despite being held back by the Dems and haters.
A wall that only idiots would now say, shouldn't be completed.
There was already a wall there, of course. 600 odd miles of it.
Obama added to it and Hillary spoke of the need to extend it.

- Trump made NATO member states pay their fair share.
- Trump got a better trade deal with Canada and Mexico.
- Trump brought jobs back to America from other countries.
- Trump cut illegal immigration.

The point is, Trump did what he said he would do when he ran for office. That in itself is extraordinary in politics.

Was he an idiot at times? Of course he was, but the results made it worthwhile.

Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize for just saying he would cut back on nuclear arms - and then went on to do the
exact opposite and also turn drone strike control over to the CIA. People think Obama was a good POTUS.
He was anything but. However, he was black and he was cool, so that was enough, apparently.

All the other points you make seem fair and valid.

However, I stand firm on my belief; Trump was a far better POTUS than he gets credit for.
If you want proper change, you need to do things differently, otherwise you get the same outcomes.
He did it differently and he got the results.

Under this current Administration, the USA is in a nose-dive.
The post before this one (by EuroTrader) makes a great point - one I would have made myself.

Everything in America is about race right now. Racist, this, racist that.
However, if you look beyond the smoke and mirrors, you will see that it is about the have's and the have-nots.

The rich and powerful v the poor and vulnerable.

They don't want you to see that, so they steer the narative and drive the divide. They set people on each other, telling them they are the problem.
Think about that the next time you see multi-millionaires, Don Lemon, Joy Reid and Maxine Waters telling everyone who'll listen that white people are holding black people down.

How'd they get where they are?

How come the MSM ignore Winsome Sears? That lady is a real success story.
However, she doesn't fit the MSM narrative. Shameful.

CNN and MSNBC etc are going to get exactly what they deserve now that people are wakening up to their lies. And not before time.

America is going to have to be put on life-support very soon if things don't change drastically. Who is going to be able to do that, I wonder?

Cheers!

"America is going to have to be put on life-support very soon if things don't change drastically. Who is going to be able to do that, I wonder?"

Much to some other members chagrin here, you know who......Donald J. Trump
He is the President, Patriot and Capitalist that will save America from the Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Progressive hordes that are trying their best to destroy it.

He did an outstanding job the first time and God willing will be voted in and given the thankless job a second time to finish what he started and truly save our Country from these Evil Commie pricks.....(and maybe Trump Jr. in 2028? What? Too soon? LOL!! Funny, no one said anything bad about the Democratic Kennedy dynasty, when that fiasco was around? Remember, good ol'Ted K.?)

Fortunately, people are starting to wake up, and be personally affected by the gross ineptitude, ineffectiveness and outright plain incompetence and ignorance displayed every day by this current administration and Congress.

Rampant inflation, unnecessarily high gas prices (open the DA#N piplines), record-high murder and crime rates, record illegal immigrant numbers, higher Covid death rate than under Trump (not really his fault but he ran on being able to lower the number....FAILED!), the utter catastrophe in Afghanistan, product shortages (why isn't he impeached for gross negligence for helping arm the enemy with Billions of Dollars of our weapons), $2 Trillion Dollar Socialist Green New Deal BS, Anti/Defund the police, pro-BLM (Communist Organization), some are even pro Antifa (another BS Communist [aka: ironically Fascist] organization) and his potentially disastrous foreign policy's (with regard to the Ukraine, China/Taiwan, Iran, etc.)....

And 3 more years to come of this absolute travesty of an Administration run by a old, senile, never in 30 years was he ever competent, disaster of a President.

PS - On the bright side, at least President Jimmy Carter will go to his grave knowing he wasn't the worst President in recent US history! Heck, at 97 they might do better with him than with Joe.

Yes, we know who Donald Trump is.

We were one Vice President away from a Coup.

Trump and his Republican cohorts took us right to the edge of moving from a Democracy to and Authoritarian government.





This has ZERO to do with if you think Biden is a good President or not. This has nothing to do with if you think Trump was a good President or not.

This is about one thing and one thing only.

The acts of a desperate man to stay in power and the people around him that want the same thing no matter the cost to our Democracy.

Simple fact is, Trump lost. He still can't admit it. 63 court cases and all went against him.

Now the facts of what happened before, during, and after Jan. 6th are coming out. Lie, cheat, steal, say and do anything you can to grasp on to the fading power.

The broke the law and deserve to go to jail.

When you try to topple to Government. You deserve to go to jail.

Trump has a long list of crimes he has committed during his life and more and more people are now digging in to the dirt of his life... But the facts are coming out on his biggest crime and this is the one that as a US Citizen, we must hold him and his cronies accountable for.

People died, our capital was under attack, and for 187 minutes while even Republicans were frantically texting him, he sat glued to the TV watching it happen and letting it continue.

What type of demented person does that?

Again, this has ZERO to do with our current President. Love Biden, Hate Biden, makes no difference. What the next President to be Republican, go for it. But Trump needs to go to prison and never be given access to power ever again. Our democracy depends on it.

What our Democracy depends on is Trump being President AGAIN and saving the country from the Socialists, Communists, Fascists and Progressives that are ACTUALLY the ones trying to take down our Country.

I'm amazed how people are so deluded and brainwashed by the propaganda being pumped out by the media that they can't use simple common sense or deductive reasoning to see how the ACTUAL criminals like Pelosi, Clintons, Schumer, Swalwell, etc., are the ones who should be going to jail for their various and numerous illegal criminal acts. THEY are the ones that are projecting THEIR criminal behavior onto others (like Trump) and unfortunately brainwashed people are too ignorant or to stuck in their idiology to really look at ALL the illegal activities being done and throw those in jail that deserve it (I'll include Fauci in this as well).

Trump was the most looked at, investigated and harassed President we ever had and they found NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH and in fact it was found that the dossier was fabricated by Clinton paid for operatives and yet SHE doesn't go to jail? (not to mention the destroyed email server and thousands of Secret emails she had on that server ILLEGALLY, and it WAS PROVEN SHE BROKE THE LAW BUT NEVER WENT to jail for it!!!!!!) If Trump had done that, do you think it wouldn't have blown up and people like YOU would be demanding he is put in jail for the smoking gun evidence it is? (rightly so)....
But NO, she doesn't go to jail, the 2 year impeachment investigation was entirely unwarranted, false, made up, fabricated, and found NOTHING. (well, they did find evidence of a political hit job AGAINST Trump and yet no one went to jail for it).

If you take the wool from your eye's, you will see that the true threat to our Democracy are the Democrats that have moved from the Center Left to the Extreme Left, trying to turn our Capitalist Democracy into a Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Progressive "utopia" that just like every other time they tried it in the world WILL FAIL. IT ALWAYS DOES, and unfortunately, it usually ends with MILLIONS of innocent people being murdered in the name of the "State".

My advice for you is to read recent history and stop watching CNN and MSNBC for your "news" and start using your own intellect (after you've read recent history books) and maybe just maybe you can shake off the propaganda haze you are in to see the light and see who this countries REAL enemies and corrupt politicians are rather than believing what you are spoon fed by the career politicians and false media so they can stay in power, keep stealing from the people and trying to force their will on everyone (while they do the exact opposite).

Leaders of insurrections tend to go to prison. Nuff said

.

(12-18-2021 03:07 PM)GordonShumway Wrote: [ -> ]

Leaders of insurrections tend to go to prison. Nuff said

.

If that's true then the Democrats will have a lot of people headed to the klink.

Sadly, because of D.C. swamp corruption, cronyism, political payoffs and blackmail that probably isn't going to happen. Just look at how Hillary, Swalwell, Pelosi and other Democrats have avoided jail even though they were ALL CLEARLY GUILTY of many misdemeanors and felonies!

As for which party is a danger to the Constitution, once again that would be the Democrats who are trying to pack the Supreme Court, look for ways to reduce or remove the 2nd Amendment, look for ways and have already limited First Amendment rights when it conflicts with their own viewpoints (allowing Social Media monopolies to censor and cancel people, limit so called "hate speech", limit those that don't agree with so called "man-made climate change [they have proposed bills in CA to do this], etc.) and reduce the 5th Amendment right to due process. (ie - "no fly" list and restricting citizens rights). Not to mention or forget the call for the defunding of our nations police forces, allowing cities to burn from BLM and Antifa riots, allowing the criminal and drug addicted homeless to take over cities and turn them into third world countries (with regard to hygiene, homeless camps, crime, disease, etc.), allowing MILLIONS of ILLEGAL immigrants to enter our country and VOTE (in NYC and CA), printing money without stop causing inflation and the devaluing of the dollar, stopping our independence on foreign oil (closing the oil pipelines), pushing communist propaganda in our schools and colleges, murdering unborn babies up to and including on the day they are born and not willing to call that murder, handing money out like drunken sailors to certain preferred groups (talk about buying votes, something that used to send politicians to jail), and on and on it goes.....because the Democratic party is now the Extremist Far-Left Socialist/Communist party of America.

Unfortunately, Democrats are too intrenched to see what is happening right before their eye's and continue to be deluded by media propaganda against Trump even though he was the PATRIOTIC CAPITALIST American that was trying to right this sinking ship.

One day if this all goes to Cra# (as in Socialist/Communist "Utopia"), people like you will cry...."We didn't know, how were we supposed to know?" when all you had to do was open a recent history book and learn about the ALWAYS FAILED "utopia's" of the Socialist/Communists/Fascists to know this NEVER ends well and usually results in the murders of MILLIONS of innocent men, women and children.

Wake up people! or you will find yourself lining up for bread lines (Bernie Sanders - "that's a good thing") and being forced into concentration camps.\

PS - Here's another hint to help you out.......Politicians and especially Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Progressive's will LIE TO YOU! About anything and everything! Read history about the lie's told to the people by the Chinese (Communist Maoists - still to this day), Russians (Communist Stalinists), Germans (Socialist Nazi's), Italians (Socialist Fascists), North Korean's (Communists), Cuban's (Communists), etc. And remember, it NEVER ends well.....over 100 MILLION people have been murdered under these Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Progressive regimes. And which party is following down this path? (another hint: it's NOT the Republican Party)

I see you're parroting all the fake media talking points like a good lemming......
Let me guess, you were also screaming for "justice" during the fabricated "Russian Trump Voting" nonsensical and fraudulent 2 year, $40 million dollar waste of time "investigation"....

No other politician in modern history has been so falsely harassed for doing his job (and outstanding so, I might add), especially when compared to our current mentally addled joke of an incompetent President.

Instead of listening to the propaganda, try reading modern history and forming your own well researched opinions and see where that takes you......(sadly, I doubt you'll take my advice and continue to sit in front of your TV and listen to the propaganda, lies and made-up news stories of CNN, MSNBC, NPR, Washington Post, etc.).

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck....
But hey, if you want to call yourself (or identify) as a Republican while holding Socialist and Democrat ideals and positions, it's a free country (for now) you can do what you want.

As for your take on history, I'm a little baffled as to what you have read.
The 2nd amendment was CLEARLY written by the founding fathers (in many of their personal writings and papers) to be about being able to defend yourself against tyranny (both from outside and inside the country) and an armed populace is the best defense against such despotism. That is the main reason for having an armed population. And there are NO provisions for licensing or registering them like cars, planes, hunting/fishing, etc. because those are NOT stated specifically as a right in our Constitution/Bill of Rights. As a student of history, you should also know that registration was and is the first thing corrupt and tyrannical governments do to FIND then CONFISCATE GUNS from the people. (ie: Nazi Germany against Jews, Communist Russia, Cuba, etc.).

Since you say you own guns you should be well aware that when purchasing a gun legally from a gun shop (where approx 80% of guns are bought) you have to pass a federal (FBI) background check (takes 30 seconds to approve or up to 3 days if they find something and need further investigation to reject the person) that specifically looks for past criminal convictions, domestic violence charges, are a drug addict, dishonorably discharged, mental illness, etc. It is also illegal (at least in every state I've lived in) for ANY person who has been charged and/or convicted of a felony to possess or buy a gun.

There is no such thing as an "assault rifle", it's a rifle. The AK47 you mentioned would be a full auto rate and there are very few people that own those types of weapons. Again, the original purpose of owning these firearms is for the self-defense from a tyrannical gov't either outside or inside our borders. That is one of the most basic rights and giving that up (which YES, would include registration) would allow totalitarianism to easily take over as we have seen over and over again in the past 100 years in countries like Russia, Germany, China, Cuba, N. Korea, Cambodia, Ethiopia, Vietnam, etc.

Guns don't kill people (unless you are Alec Baldwin), people do! Sorry couldn't resist that one.

As for the Socialist argument, you being a student of history I'm sure you are well aware that the Government services you listed are pretty standard for ANY modern government and have little to nothing to do with the Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Totalitarian Governments that I was talking about. I'm not an Anarchist (nor the nonsensical, oxymoronic "Anarco-Communist" that Antifa claims to be) so I believe in having a limited Government to run and perform essential services but there is a HUGE difference between that and having the Government run EVERYTHING like they do in Socialist (Germany-Nazi), Communist (USSR, China, Cuba, etc.), Fascist (Mussolini Italy), etc.

As for Healthcare in the US, I agree it is both the best and the worst in different categories. However unlike you, again history shows us that socialized/communist healthcare is definitely NOT the model to emulate (based on terrible care, no incentive to innovate, long wait times, etc.). I'm not an expert in this field, however a little common sense can go a long way especially in a profession that is supposed to be concerned with the patients. You like licenses so much then why don't they require Doctor's and Nurses in order to renew their license be required to perform medical work in low income area's? You might be saying, that's not fair? Really, people in the military reserves are required to work/train for several weekends and weeks every year. Doctor's and nurses are supposed to be in the field to help people as per the hippocratic oath. Again, I'm not saying this a the only answer but it's something that can be tried and still keep the Capitalist monetary incentives present so doctor's can be well paid but we can still get good healthcare for lower income people.
Also, we have 50 States, I'm a big believer in trying different ideas/methods and using the best practices from those that work the best (in saving money, helping greater numbers of people, etc.)

Calling Trump a failure, a guy who took $50 million of his father's money and turned it into several billion isn't exactly anyone's definition of lack of success. If you think people have to be successful in EVERYTHING they attempt to do then I guess you will also believe people like Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Colonel Sanders, etc. are all failures as they have ALL failed before becoming successful.

Look I get it you don't like the guy (Trump). Fine that's your prerogative, but the facts are he had a successful Presidency and did almost everything he stated he said he would do, which is something seldom done by our modern day Presidents. (including the dim bulb, we currently have)
Although you might not like it, it's looking good that America might get another four patriotic and successful Trump years in the White House. As long as the Democrats keep moving towards their leftist Socialist/Communist agenda he's practically a shoe in. Only time will tell and just think how much more you will have to talk about!

Also curious to know your stance on Abortion, Education (as in Critical Race theory), Defunding the police, BLM, Antifa and Man Made Global Warming? (you know, since you're a Republican and all)