[GET] (offtopic): Solid Reasons To Get Vaccinated

***mthomas*** · 12-13-2021, 07:29 AM

(12-13-2021 06:13 AM)Dreonar Wrote: @mthomas,

You guys keep carrying that data around as a bloody sword, but in all reality, it means nothing.

From https://vaers.hhs.gov:

"VAERS is not designed to determine if a vaccine caused a health problem, but is especially useful for detecting unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse event reporting that might indicate a possible safety problem with a vaccine."

"While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness."

You know how this data is collected? You take a drug and something happens to you after, it gets reported as a possible adverse reaction. It doesn't mean the drug caused it.

The purpose of collecting that data is that they can take the occurrence of certain conditions in those who received a drug...

And then compare it with the occurrence of the same health conditions in those who didn't receive the drug.

Let me put it this way:

If I drink a cup of Coldrex (which contains paracetamol), and then 2 months later I die of a heart attack, does this mean the Coldrex I drank 2 months ago gave me the heart attack?

Hey, maybe it's possible, but you wouldn't go around shouting it off the rooftops that nobody should ever drink Coldrex because it gives you a heart attack, would you?

But that's exactly what you are doing when you cite that data as a reason to not get vaxxed.

First off, I don't care whether or not YOU took or take the vaccine/boosters, the above listed information shows that this is still an EXPERIMENTAL set of drugs that was rushed through the FDA drug testing process and we have NO IDEA WHAT THE LONG TERM HEALTH EFFECTS from taking these drugs/boosters will be.

If you want to risk your future health on it, then as a previous poster said here, more power too you and thanks for being a willing test rat, I mean, subject, that can be tracked against those that haven't taken the so called "vaccine". (obviously, in quotes because you can still be infected and infect others even once you've been jabbed multiple times).

So unless you are obese, over 70 and/or have several health issues (diabetes, hypertension, etc.) your chances of dying from Covid are less than .03% and you still think it's a logical decision to risk your life on an experimental drug that you have no legal repercussions to sue if anything goes wrong, then roll up your sleeves every 6 months to get that jab! Have fun!

But to force anyone that DOESN'T want this experimental drug when there is NO DIFFERENCE in infection rates between vaccinated and non-vaccinated is unscientific at best and criminal at worst.

***SuperAchiever*** · (This post was last modified: 12-13-2021 10:24 AM by SuperAchiever.)

Its so simple... after over 1000 hours of research..

Love or Fear? You decide / decided already.

Love = natural immune system is active
No one controls you, you have Everything

Fear = vaxinated, because immunesystem is not working properly in this state
Controlled from ouside. Want Protection.. asking for security from gov.. do everything for the sense of security.

Vaxed People learned to Follow orders, because they fear
punishment and also want to stay in the mainstream group, so they are not Alone..
And they ignore all critical informations about it and logic about the business of vaxxing and how no one will ever be responsable for their possible permanent damage or not being able to get children anymore etc. Because they decided it themselves. Still The Gov Pharma WHO Marketing worked on them..

And they decided and they want to be right and have their selective view, until they find out they where all completely tricked lured inside the n.w.o. but they still want to believe... eyes wide shut.. no strenght to stand against unlawful laws and the highest criminal act against humanity we ever Seen...

Also its not about vaxed or not. Or health.
Its all about control and if you Follow orders or not.
Its also about the QR code and the spy apps that come with it. So soon all victims of it will have a obey like in China mindset... so sad, but its the Truth they don`t want to know. They hate it... because its against their imaginary World view.. they want to be in the Matrix.

However we must be in love and we must still respect their decission in this incarnation.. its ok.

Iam in love with humanity still ♥

In the end the good will still win, because people will find out.. and we will get the golden age soon anyway, after the big purge.

***Vivekananda*** · (This post was last modified: 12-15-2021 11:26 PM by Vivekananda.)

Just updating... I have no time to answer in real time, so I'm writing from old annotations.

(12-04-2021 07:55 AM)solar33 Wrote: Hello, Vivekananda.
I just stopped by to see how your thread was progressing.

Hello, solar 33.

"Why are you so invested in this whole debate?"
My sincere opinion is that there is an irrational attack on the resources of modern science. I believe lives are being needlessly lost.

"Do you have shares in a pharma company?"
Your question raises a suspicion that seems to be repeated here among anti-vaxes.
I've never owned shares in pharmas, and from my past experience in the stock market, it's likely that I never have again - in any company, pharma or not.
But it is exactly equivalent to the suspicions raised about who has economic interests in supporting the anti-vax movement.
You'll have to accept my word on this.
Just like I have to accept yours when you talk about having a child who was harmed by a vaccine.
It's interesting, however, to see that you didn't told us about which vaccine you were talking about.

"Are you on a mission to save lives?"
You can think this way, if you want. But I don't think that it's really a "mission".

"Or are you just trying to win this argument?"
I just want to expose the way that I think. There is not a personal reward for winning or loosing here.

"If it is the latter, then I think you are pissing against the wind buddy. (it's a UK phrase)"
In Brazil you would say that I am "cuspindo para cima" (I suppose it is like "spitting up" in English)

"you are not going to make anyone here change their mind - including me"
I really don't have to. I only keep myself informed of what is happening. Vaccines (with masks and social distancing, etc.) are working (unfortunelly, for less time that I would like, but the reinforcement doses are kind of partial solution to this problem).
The Brazilian economy is suffering a lot with serious problems, but we're having a time of great illusion, with people feeling secure to returning to old "normal" way of life.

There are very strong economic interests at stake.
There was no carnival in 2021, and we still don't know if we will have it now in 2022.
I don't know if the tourism industry in Rio de Janeiro and in the rest of the country will manage to survive to a new cancellation of the carnival.
I believe that this return to normality, together with the passing of the useful time of immunity granted by the vaccine, will end up bringing new problems to the country.

Some antivax arguments in another thread are kind of crazy. In some months some ideas (like "everybody that take the shots will die in 1 year) will be destructed.
It' just like you said in the end:
"Time will tell and we will see who's the last man standing."
Another crazy idea was about the probability of being hit by an asteroid being upper than die by covid...
The guy that wrote this must live in Smallville...

"I have made up my mind based on solid science and personal knowledge from within the NHS"
Just like me, but not within NHS

"I am not stupid, feeble-minded, gullible or deluded."
Good for you. And for the world.

"I am not Antivaxx per say, I have had all my vaccines up until this plandemic."
I had all, including a shot against influenza, during this pandemic.
And I'm ready to get the reinforcement shot.

"I have however, had a son vaccine damaged by the MMR vaccine"
An now I have to accept your word on this.
An I have a friend damaged by covid.
And I have another friend that have a small problem caused by the lack of vaccination against polio, she can't walk straight, she limps.
And I know people that were severed crippled by the same reason.
I think that I know how the parents of these persons feel about the antivax movement.
I know, it's not the same vaccine, but the problem is that the lies about "vaccines causing autism" seemed to have started an antivax movement that is being reinforced by more lies.
More people is dying and being crippled, and I don't forget that there are problems even with the "old" vaccines that we had. The "old" vaccines present problems in a small percentage of the population.
As far as I know, we are facing a pandemic, so the problem is mathematical:
I prefer to take the (statistically low) risks of having problems with the current vaccines, comparing that risk with the much greater possibility of contracting covid and having problems that could have been avoided.
Currently, there is also a development of vaccines against covid by the "old" method of inactivated virus.

"Do you think you are going to change my mind?"
No. I don't think that this is personal. This is not my intent. I believe in rational discussions.

"So, why not just agree to disagree with the others and get back to marketing?"
Yes, I'm doing this. There are LOTS of extra arguments that I still have not yet published here. I call it food for tought.

"Again, I ask you - what do you expect to achieve by keeping this going?"
I hope this is a healthy discussion, not contaminated by the disease of radicalism.
It's the only way I know of progressing towards something concrete.
If I only listen to those who agree with me, there is no progress.
Likewise, if those who disagree with me do not think about what I write, there is no progress.
If someone says he can't change his mind, whatever argument he hears or reads, or whatever fact is presented to him, what do we have?
Anyone interested in a scientific fact or in sustaining their way of thinking in an almost dogmatic way?
I never considered myself a keeper of the truth, but according to everything I've learned in my life, vaccines are still the best solution.
As I predicted at the beginning of the pandemic, the need to find a quick solution would lead some scientists to abandon the necessary caution.
People like Frenchman Didier Raoult, who released a flawed study defending the use of chloroquine against covid - a study that eluded politicians seeking a quick solution to the problem.
But I must say that as far as I know "big pharma" was as careful as possible, and brought us the best possible solution during an emergency.
The vaccines were tested on volunteers, they have already passed the "experimental" phase. They are a part of a REAL solution.
And yes, "small pharma" has profited A LOT here in Brazil, with chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
India also made a profit - as they export raw material for the manufacture of chloroquine and raw material for vaccines.
Here we are developing a "traditional" vaccine that is cheaper and significantly less costly than what "big pharma" now offers us.
I hope that one day it will be completed and used on a large scale.
Her only problem is that we can't passively watch people die while this "traditional" vaccine is being developed.

again: "what do you expect to achieve by keeping this going?"
Have you made this same question in the thread that I mentioned in post #1?

"Time will tell and we will see who's the last man standing."
Okay... At this moment, the official number of deaths caused by covid in Brazil is larger than 615000.
Fortunately for Brazilians, in South America, Brazil is the country whose population is least opposed to vaccination. The estimated population here is 213,3 million of inhabitants.
By the end of next year we'll see the antivaxes profecies are real or not...
I mean, if we manage to survive up to 2022 december, we'll see:
- if most of the vaccinated people in the world has died,
- or being damaged by vaccines (now that Brazil and other countries are using Pfizer even in children),
- or being hit by asteroids,
- or if our football players are having collapsing (even dying) during the matches.

Now, being a guy that is not a newbie to this, but a 12-year long researcher, what is your perspective about the future of mankind - and big pharma, of course?
If the problem is so serious as antivaxes - extremists like the ones in post#1111 saying nonsense things about Bill Gates, or even as selective antivaxes (anti-mrna) like you, what will we see?
The very rich "big pharmers" living in luxury among countless corpses while the world's economy collapses?
I can't imagine this scenario, but I guess that antivaxes will continue to create new theories and fake news, even if the science could produce vaccines with zero problems.
Oh, yes... the "old" innoculated virus vaccines also have lots of collateral effects. The same vaccines you say that took, before pandemics.

***Vivekananda*** · 12-15-2021, 11:40 PM

(12-06-2021 09:56 PM)jimmythesaint Wrote: Vivekananda you posting all of these specific points.. only adds to the mass psychosis

[/quote]

jimmythesaint
Vivekananda you posting all of these specific points.. only adds to the mass psychosis.
you do realize that yes??

It's just your opinion. I don't see a "massive psychosis" but countless lives being lost during a pandemic.

you cannot possible be that obtuse
I can say the same for those who do not see the dimensions of the problems caused by the pandemic

for every case you mention there are thousands that get this flu and are fine
No way! A common flu cannot be compared to the mortality brought by the pandemic.

so from your perspective.. we should force 98% of people to get vaccinated and not allow healthy people to develop natural immunity??
It turns out that "healthy people," including young athletes, are getting sick and dying. In an initial moment, the vaccine is the best solution

that is dishonest and you should be ashamed of yourself for not have a broader context
What context? One trying to compare the common flu with the problems covid brought? THIS is dishonest and YOU should be ashamed.

when people like a Robert malone talk about repurposing drugs
https://youtu.be/o33K9KrOMlg
the billions being made by pharmaceutical companies on this is astounding
What Robert Malone says contradicts the real effectiveness of vaccines.
And we can't overlook the billion-dollar profits of repurposed drug makers - even though none of them have proven effectiveness against covid.

you have to at least have an inkling of wisdom to at least agree with ONE POINT
This should NOT be a FORCED MEDICAL INTERVENTION.

I could even agree with this, considering that the use of vaccines is something so established by science that vaccination should never be a "forced intervention". It should be completely voluntary, and the anti-vaccination movement should never exist.

***schnapii*** · 12-15-2021, 11:44 PM

Guys think about this, what is this for Pandemic, when you musst Force People to get Vaccine? I mean when its a real Pandemic, People will kill each other for a Shot. This not happen, also look how many Sportler gets Hearthattacks from this stuff. Never ever take this stuff. Its only what i mean.

***Vivekananda*** · 12-15-2021, 11:46 PM

(12-06-2021 10:05 PM)jimmythesaint Wrote: you want to know the truth
thank you for the sacrifice you made.. I appreciate it
because.. vaccinated people now will provide long term data where in a few years.. reasonable and rational people can make an educated decision

It's not a "sacrifice", it's a perfectly logical decision and following the best that science can present us today.
We are in a pandemic, where we cannot afford to wait decades for a solution to a problem we have TODAY.
I prefer to survive and look at the hypothetical and - as far as we know, totally unreal - "long-term" problems, which only exist in the imagination of anti-vaxxes.

***ilikeseggs*** · 12-15-2021, 11:48 PM

All I will contribute to this thread is this:

BEWARE THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT THINGS THAT YOU DON'T KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW AND YOU CONTINUE TO NOT KNOW IF YOU STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND ONLY DEFEND THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR
BEWARE THAT HUMANITY IS RULED BY FEAR AND CODIFIED SYMBOLISM
BEWARE THAT EVENTS OF THIS SCALE ARE NEVER WHAT THEY SEEM
BEWARE THAT THE TRUMPETERS OF FEAR ALSO HAVE A STAKE IN THIS
BEWARE OF BECOMING A TOOL FOR A CORRUPT SOCIETY
BEWARE OF MAKING LIFE-ALTERING DECISIONS BASED ON FEAR
BEWARE OF THE LEMMINGS EFFECT
BEWARE OF THE WOLVES IN THE HENHOUSE
BEWARE OF THOSE THAT DISCOUNT HUMANITY'S ABILITY TO ADAPT TO INFECTIOUS DISEASES
BEWARE OF SCAPEGOATING THE TRUE REASONS WHY CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS ARE MORE SUCCEPTIBLE TO FOREIGN ATTACKS
BEWARE OF THOSE THAT STOP QUESTIONING ESPECIALLY WHEN ITS THE MOST VITAL TIME TO DO SO
BEWARE OF AN ORGANIZATION'S CAPACITY TO COMMIT ATROCIITIES IN THE NAME OF MONEY AND POWER
BEWARE OF FALSE FLAG EVENTS DESIGNED TO SOFTEN THE RESOLVE OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC
BEWARE OF OUR NEWFOUND DISTASTE TOWARD HISTORY
BEWARE OF THE POLITICAL, LEGAL AND MONETARY MECHANISMS SET IN MOTION DECADES AGO TO MAKE THE EVENTS OF TODAY POSSIBLE

Of course, there's FAR MORE that NEEDS to be said, but that would make me join the ranks of extremism - the remote control tool for self-destruction.

DO NOT expect me to respond...I've said ONLY what I need to say.

***Vivekananda*** · 12-15-2021, 11:54 PM

(12-06-2021 11:55 PM)mthomas Wrote: Hey Vivekananda,
Check out this website that tracks deaths, hospitalizations, health issues (ie heart attacks, miscarriages, etc.) for people that have gotten the China Virus Vaccine. Unfortunately we will probably see these numbers rising exponentially in the near future as we start to see the long term effects of these experimental and untested (long term) drugs...

Save the site as who knows, one day you might find yourself a statistic on this site as well. Although, as a fellow BBHF member I hope you don't.

Covid Vaccine Data Website

Hi mthomas, chack out this website: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-...are-tactic
"The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System or VAERS is being misused by anti-vaxxers to terrify the public. It’s a shame because VAERS plays a vital role in detecting important but rare reactions caused by vaccines. The weaponization of VAERS by anti-vaccine activists serves as a reminder that having access to more information does not always lead to better decisions. Information needs to be correctly interpreted to guide us in the right direction."

"Take-home message:
-VAERS is an American reporting system to keep track of unfavourable or unintended events that take place after vaccination, like a fever or a rash, and that may (or may not) have been caused by the vaccine
-Anti-vaxxers routinely publicize reports from VAERS as if they are proof that a vaccine is causing clear harm
(...)
-On its own, VAERS cannot be used to conclude anything, but it can tip off experts that a particular safety signal might be real and deserves to be further studied"

***Vivekananda*** · 12-16-2021, 12:06 AM

I don't have to believe in vaccines or medicine. I just watch what happens, and I can't see any concrete solution better than applying vaccines. In fact, each day there is more real evidence that vaccines, even if they are not perfect, are still the best solution.

https://saude.ig.com.br/2021-12-15/covid...sista.html

Covid: Unvaccinated are almost 100% of severe cases, says anesthesiologist

"In March, Leonardo Camargo told BBC News Brasil that he was resorting to disused drugs because the stock of sedatives for intubation was about to run out."
'Today, unvaccinated are almost 100% of severe covid cases,' says an anesthesiologist who faced a lack of sedatives at the height of the pandemic
(...)
Today, almost nine months later, the scenario is quite different. This week, for the first time since the first wave of the pandemic, there is no patient with a positive covid-19 result in the Intensive Care Unit of Hospital Tacchini, in Bento Gonçalves (RS), where he works.
(...)
Already immunized with the third dose of the covid-19 vaccine, Camargo now feels more comfortable to hug his daughter and visit his 70-year-old mother, who lives in Santa Catarina, but says that, in his own family, he had to deal with resistance to the vaccine.

"My father-in-law didn't want to get vaccinated. He got covid and only after that did he take the vaccine. As a doctor who has followed hospitalizations for covid since the beginning of the pandemic, I observe in practice the effect of the vaccine and the importance, now, of the booster dose. "

***Vivekananda*** · 12-16-2021, 12:21 AM

"Effectiveness of vaccines surprises and surpasses testing rate, says Fiocruz"

https://noticias.uol.com.br/saude/ultima...iocruz.htm

Vaccines used in Brazil against covid-19 had greater efficacy in the population, in some cases, than the rates achieved in the period of testing with volunteers. The conclusion is part of the first bulletin of the Vigivac project, by Fiocruz (Oswaldo Cruz Foundation), which was based on 150 million people who took one of the four vaccines administered in the country until October.

According to the evaluation, the vaccines had an effectiveness between 83% to 99% for severe cases and deaths between the age groups of 20 and 80 years. In the population under 60 years, this protection was above 85% against the risk of hospitalization and 89% for death, in all cases. The survey's conclusion is that CoronaVac, AstraZeneca, Pfizer and Janssen are effective in dramatically reducing hospitalizations and deaths.

"It was a good surprise for us that, in real life, the numbers were better than in the test period", says Manoel Barral-Netto, a researcher in the field of immunology at Fiocruz Bahia and leader of the study.

Vaccination success is pointed out as a key point for the reduction of severe cases and deaths from covid-19 since April. Since then, there has been a constant fall in rates, with no state registering a new wave of the disease — as happened, for example, with countries in Europe.

A higher rate in real life than in the preliminary testing phase sometimes happens. Fortunately this happened in covid-19, which shows that vaccines work and provide almost equal protection, with a small difference between them. - Manoel Barral, from Fiocruz

For him, the results become even more significant because people who participate in tests are volunteers and, as a rule, have a more frequent profile in protective measures — which does not represent the entire population.

"When you have these high levels of effectiveness and protection, it creates a lot of confidence that the vaccine is effective — and not just one of them, but all of them used here have worked," he says.

Good results
Fiocruz analyzed symptomatic infections, hospital admissions and deaths due to covid-19 in Brazil until October. Data were collected from the databases of the National Vaccination Campaign, Flu Syndrome Notifications (e-SUS Notifica) and SRAG Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Notifications (SIVEP- Influenza ).

Main target of Brazilians who criticize the vaccine, CoronaVac presented, in practice, rates close to those of other vaccines used in the country. In almost all age groups, it showed better results than those seen in the testing phase on volunteers.

CoronaVac hospital age effectiveness rate:

18-29 years old - 89%
30-39 years old - 91%
40 and 49 years old - 90%
50-59 years old - 85%
60-69 years old - 81%
70-79 years old - 77%
80 years or older - 64%

In the case of deaths, this rate ranged from 69% to 95% between age groups, with a reduction as the age of the person immunized increased.

In its presentation, CoronaVac pointed to an effectiveness of 78% for admissions (on an average of all ages), for example; in real life, however, only seniors over 70 years old had less protection than that measured in tests.

Another vaccine also produced in Brazil, AstraZeneca had an effectiveness rate for hospitalizations between 87% and 98%, depending on the age group, reaching 99% of deaths among people aged 18 to 59 years.

In the case of Pfizer, the percentage of protection against death and hospitalization between 30 and 59 years old was 99%, and 98% for those aged 18 to 29 and 70 to 79 years old. As she arrived after the end of the phase of elderly people over 80 years old, the percentage in this group could not be measured.

The Janssen vaccine did not reach rates for all age groups (since it is the least applied), and only a few had registered effectiveness, with rates of 88% and 93% for hospitalizations and 84% to 94% for deaths.

"The results show that all vaccines are providing a great reduction in the risk of infection, hospitalization and death by covid-19 for the Brazilian population. For the population under 60 years, all analyzed vaccines presented protection above 85% against the risk of hospitalization and above 89% for risk of death by covid-19", says the bulletin.

The survey highlights that deaths among vaccinated under 20s is "very rare". As expected, in the older groups of people, a lower effectiveness of vaccines was observed.

"The reduction was 7% when compared to those over 80 years old compared to those under 60 years old, both for AstraZeneca and for CoronaVac", says the study.

In this case, the two vaccines were the only ones that had the effectiveness for all ages, since they were the first ones used in the country and that they served almost all the priority public of the elderly and health professionals.

For Manoel Barral, some aspects need to be considered for our country to have good results.

"In Brazil, we have practically no resistance to the vaccine in the population, and this created a very large collective protection. We did not have large places where people did not want to take the vaccine, as in other countries, and which remained as sources of transmission ", it says.

Another point he considers important is that vaccines began to have their cycles closed among the population at a time when viral circulation was declining (since the second wave peak was between March and April), which could lead to a greater effectiveness.

"That's why we say that this situation of low transmission can generate a certain effect of overestimating the effectiveness values. There in March and April there was a high viral transmission, and now we have a situation with lower transmission", he says.

It's like using repellent: if you go to an area that doesn't have a mosquito, you'll never assess its effectiveness. But, when you are in an area with a lot of mosquitoes and you have a lot of bites, you can better distinguish the effect of the product. So, in this current scenario, this number may be more optimistic than reality. - Manoel Barral, from Fiocruz

Finally, the researcher emphasizes that the positive scenario does not mean that we have won the pandemic. "The virus is still circulating and we need to maintain all precautions. The countries that tried to relax had to go back. Nothing prevents us from having a new wave in Brazil, we have to remain vigilant", he concludes.