[GET] (offtopic): Solid Reasons To Get Vaccinated

[mthomas]

Interesting.....

[mthomas]

So the data is starting to show the "vaccines" aren't working!!!

[Vivekananda]

(11-20-2021 02:04 PM)mthomas Wrote:  So the data is starting to show the "vaccines" aren't working!!!

This is another video posted on youtube, with the clear objective of reinforcing a point of view.
We're still waiting for a solid explanation of the drop of problems in Brazil, coinciding with the vaccination of a good part of the population.
Not really waiting, but understanding the help from our friends, the vaccines.
It's a very complicated subject, and there are NO simple answers to the various problems.
What I read about New Mexico: "New Mexico was an early leader in vaccinations, and 63 percent of its population is fully vaccinated, compared with the national average of 58 percent"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/10/us/covid-new-mexico.html
[i]"Numbers provided by the hospital indicate that vaccinations were still protecting many patients who had received shots. From Oct. 1 to Nov. 2, it cared for 289 Covid patients, 81 percent of whom were not fully vaccinated."

mthomas, even if there were a bigger problem of contamination among those who were vaccinated, there is a lot to be taken into account.

“Right now, this is a disease of the unvaccinated,” Ms. Werbner said.
(...)
"The problem, she said, is that the Delta variant hit as residents’ immunity began to wane."

I don't know how people were vaccinate in New Mexico, but in Brazil risk groups (old people, etc.) were the first to be vaccinated.
I suppose that the same happened in New Mexico. However, we can't forget some problems that usually doesn't appear in the statistics:
Vaccinated people in these groups have the feeling of having some extra security, but add the following to the pandemic recipe:
- the highly contagious delta variant
- the fall in the effectiveness of the vaccine after a few months.
- the sense of security causing vaccinated people to take less care.
It can lead those who are vaccinated to expose themselves more, and this can result in a higher rate of contamination.

A third problem in Brazil is the lack of a solid, national policy to combat the pandemic. There is a lot of focus on vaccination, and little on testing. Even vaccination was only started in earnest when a governor decided to import vaccines, while the president did nothing.

[eltopo]

(11-16-2021 05:32 AM)jimmythesaint Wrote:  Vaccinated people.. can

1. get sick
2. pass it to others

Also, can

3. DIE

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...amily.html

Two times vaccinated. Age 45. No known medical conditions. Still....

You can argue for either side. But the truth is you never know for sure.

You may be fully vaccinated and still die.
You may be fully vaccinated and survive.
You may be not vaccinated and die.
You may be not vaccinated and still survive.

So it is better not to argue either this is right or that is right and be aware of the facts and decide for yourself and accept the consequences of your decision.

[mthomas]

Quote:So it is better not to argue either this is right or that is right and be aware of the facts and decide for yourself and accept the consequences of your decision.

The problem is that so called scientists, medical professionals and politicians (well, we always know they lie for a living) are NOT telling the public the FACTS. Just like with "man-made" climate change, they are manipulating, lying, fabricating and putting out propaganda to FORCE what they want onto the unsuspecting public for their own nefarious reasons (money, power, political change, etc.).

The issue here is whether or not you have dominion over your own body and what goes into it (from a medical viewpoint), especially when the death rate for some age ranges is less than 1% and the spread of the virus has no correlation with regard to vaccination status.

These so called "vaccines" are experimental and have NOT been tested for the long term, have already killed people and have documented many with life threatening heart issues (not to mention the huge increase in young athletes dropping dead on the playing fields) and all this is being purposely swept under the rug and ignored by the pharmaceutical companies so that they can get more people to get the shots (which may be never ending, we don't know yet how many will become mandatory).
And of course, make more money from these experimental drugs....

I don't care if you want to take the shots, more power to you but to make them mandatory (especially with the low death rates and similar infections rates of both the vaccinated and unvaccinated) is a crime against humanity when they have NO IDEA what the long term potential consequences could be.....This is one of the largest criminal enterprises ever perpetuated on the human race for nothing more than greed and power by our governments. It has NOTHING to do with public safety or health as the REAL science is piling up data and evidence that what they are doing (masks, shots, boosters, lockdowns, etc.) have all been in vain and either ineffective or even counter to areas that have done nothing (like all the countries in low vaccinated Africa for example).

I AM all for science, but when data comes out that goes against the government directives and it gets suppressed or isn't investigated or is lied about (i.e. as in the actual number of Covid deaths....in the US hospitals are PAID with each "Covid" related death and therefore the incentive is to report as many deaths in a hospital as Covid to get the "free" government money) or people like Dr. Death Fauci is still running the NIAID and is still the chief medical advisor to the President after HE funded the Lab where Covid most likely came from, has a vested monetary interest in vaccinations and has lied both to the American people and Congress than the science is tainted and being manipulated and CANNOT be trusted anymore.

No, I will not take an experimental drug that is made and given by pharmaceutical companies that have been sued for BILLIONS of dollars for fraudulent drug claims and various health safety concerns. They have also been given a legal loophole to not be sued if this whole "vaccine" thing blows up with people dying or getting severe health complications in the years ahead from the shots/boosters.....that is absolute BS!

Look at the past vaccines that have resulted in terrible heath issues for those that took them (i.e. Gulf War Syndrome, etc.), look at the past legal issues from the pharmaceutical companies (billions of dollars in fines paid), the lies from Dr. Death Fauci and other medical/science "professionals", the money trails for these same companies and doctors/scientists/politicians, the lies they have ALL told and the people they have killed (ie NY Gov Cuomo, medical staff that refuse to give Ivermectin to patients [even if only as a placebo, if it turns out not to actually be effective against Covid], have put people on machines even after it was shown NOT to work in patients, listing deaths as Covid even through they CLEARLY were NOT, reporting manipulated and false data from hospitals, etc.).

FREEDOM to CHOOSE!
FREEDOM over your own body!
FREEDOM from Government overreach, power grabs and tyranny!
FREEDOM to keep your medical information private and personal!
FREEDOM! FREEDOM, FREEDOM!

[eltopo]

(11-23-2021 12:03 AM)mthomas Wrote:  they are manipulating, lying, fabricating and putting out propaganda to FORCE what they want onto the unsuspecting public for their own nefarious reasons (money, power, political change, etc.).

The issue here is whether or not you have dominion over your own body and what goes into it

These so called "vaccines" are experimental and have NOT been tested for the long term

I don't care if you want to take the shots, more power to you but to make them mandatory is a crime against humanity.

VALID POINTS. 100% CORRECT and SPOT ON.

[Vivekananda]

What do conspiracy theories have to do with the anti-vaccination movement?

In 2019, Brazil lost its certification as a “measles-free country” after a resumption of virus circulation (the last cases of this disease had occurred in 2015). The resurgence of a disease that was under control demonstrates consequences of the relaxation of the population and the government in working on continuous awareness regarding vaccines.

It cannot be acceptable that, in the middle of 2020, anyone will lose their life from measles. Last year, 10 people died from the disease. This particular case is just one example of what not to do when caring for a viral illness that has been controlled by a vaccine. It is very important that we remain alert so that, once controlled (this is not yet the case), the same does not happen with covid-19.

With the pandemic, one of the most discussed issues was freedom. Whether it's freedom of decision to get vaccines, freedom to come and go when we're in quarantine, or freedom of expression to proliferate false news and misinformation. It may seem obvious, but it must be said that individual freedom ends (or should end) when it bumps into collective freedom, even more when we deal with a matter of public health.

The population's hesitation about vaccines has existed since the first vaccine appeared and, for this reason, it is the role of government officials and the scientific community to inform and truly educate, so that people do not only need to accept information or rely on “trust blind” in Science.

It is always necessary to show that the reason we place our trust in Science is the fact that this knowledge is the result of a process in which every claim (whether by scientists or authorities) is harshly analyzed by the entire community, which tends to avoid guesswork. and/or preconceptions. In addition to the history of success in scientific predictions in several areas.

However, the challenge of keeping the population aware of the importance of vaccines has been enhanced by social networks where it is quite difficult to separate information from misinformation.

In the case of vaccines, the leaders of the anti-vaccination movement have seen since the beginning of the pandemic (March 2020) an opportunity to “educate” people, according to an essay published on August 31, 2021 in the American newspaper The New York Times. Understand here “educate” by “spreading misinformation about vaccines”. In the United States, 9% of people did not consider vaccines safe in 2015, as of 2021, the number of individuals who openly declare themselves as antivaccine is already 22%.

The scientific community has been investigating how and why the anti-vaccination movement, as well as other anti-scientific movements, has gained so much momentum in recent years. Openly declaring oneself against vaccination is an uncommon practice even for sites and pages that serve as a "reference" for this movement and that usually declare themselves "in favor of safe vaccination", "in favor of choice" or somethings like this.

This type of discourse was analyzed in a study published in March 2021 on the behavioral reasons that lead people to believe in denial discourses. Researchers Federico Germani and Nikola Biller-Andorno argue that anti-vaccination individuals engage more in conspiracy theories, such as alleged “elites who want to conquer the world” or so-called “population control”.

In addition, emotional arguments that link conspiracy theories with public figures about whom people already have prior opinions, or with words like “God” and “family” tend to engage anti-vaccination people more on social media.

This observation is of great importance for the scientific community and for everyone who intends to communicate Science or argue against unscientific theories. In the emotional versus rational debate, emotional arguments often have greater persuasive power.

First-person accounts of a specific case of an acquaintance are more interesting, engaging, and often easier to understand than complex statistics that, no matter how correct, demonstrate a logical argument. However, in order not to fall into false analogies, the way to use the so-called emotional arguments in favor of the communication of Science must be, more than ever, extremely rational.

https://www.tecmundo.com.br/ciencia/2290...vacina.htm

[Vivekananda]

"These so called "vaccines" are experimental"

"CORRECTED-Fact Check- COVID-19 vaccines are not experimental and they have not skipped trial stages "

https://www.reuters.com/article/factchec...SL1N2M70MW

[Vivekananda]

"Big pharma" or "big money for politicians and marketing" ?

"This is the moment the anti-vaccine movement has been waiting for"

Ok, nytimes site says "you've reached your limit of free articles". Not true, but no problem.
I just refreshed the page (F5), and quickly select all text (Ctrl-A), copied (Ctrl-C) and pasted it on my favorite text editor (Ctrl-V)

"New anti-vaccine organizations also began fund-raising in earnest, bringing in millions of dollars, both from wealthy donors and by selling fear. They use this money to create slick propaganda for larger audiences, such as a spate of anti-vaccine films like “Vaxxed,” which provided a blueprint for pandemic denialism films like “Plandemic.” And they donate funds to the politicians they hope to win over."

read (much) more at:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/31/opini...ement.html

[mthomas]

Quote:It may seem obvious, but it must be said that individual freedom ends (or should end) when it bumps into collective freedom, even more when we deal with a matter of public health.

This is at the heart of the matter.
I get that you are from Brazil so it might be hard for you to grasp the intricacies of the Freedom contained in the US Constitution and our history of individual freedoms over those of the collective (Government)....Although, I will agree there are times such as during WWI and WWII where this was upended and SOME personal freedoms were curtailed/suspended in order to win the war. (after which they were reinstated as personal rights/freedoms again).

I get a health emergency however this so called "pandemic" has too many falsehoods, lies, deceptions, inaccuracies, data manipulations and propaganda, reversals of "official" rules, omissions, lack of research and follow-up (ivermectin, shot side effects, masks, shutdowns, etc.), conflicts of interest, greed, unlawful lawsuit protections, unlawful public distribution of private individual health information, forced mandating of EXPERIMENTAL and UNTESTED (for long term side effects) new drugs.

There is NO logical, medical or scientific reason to FORCE anyone to take these new, potentially life-threatening (either soon after receiving the shot and boosters) or from long term UNTESTED/UNKNOWN consequences whereby if it happens the drug companies (who have been found guilty of numerous felony charges in the past and have paid BILLIONS of dollars in fines for fraudulent marketing of their drugs with potentially harmful consequences, are immune [pun intended] to any lawsuits against them.....like WTF? That ALONE should make any person question of safety of these new, untested [in the long term] drugs). That is NOT any conspiracy theory, that is simply common sense logic based on historical facts!
In the past:
- Drugs have been found to have potentially life-threatening side effects when they were rushed into production for mass public distribution.....(ie Thalidomide, although pre-FDA testing).
- Vaccinations have also had disastrous and life-threatening outcomes (i.e. gulf war syndrome, polio vaccine deaths of children given a live dose by mistake, etc.)
- "Good" drugs that have gone through all the FDA testing that were used for years and have now been removed from use due to harmful or fatal side effects (ie Accutane, Quaaludes, etc.)
- the BILLIONS of dollars in fines paid by pharmaceutical companies for being caught lying, making fraudulent claims, and other nefarious and criminal endeavors (to make more money, increase the stock prices, trying to recoup experimentation costs for drugs, etc.)

So there have historically been valid reasons for people to question the safety of these novel, untested (long term) drugs which were mostly given by the patients at the behest of their doctors (who were educated by the pharmaceutical companies as to what these drugs were supposed to do/treat and how to administer them/dosages). Now we have Dr. Death Fauci who maintains a monetary interest in these vaccines (conflict of interest, much?), was caught lying to Congress and the American people about funding the Communist Chinese Lab (against US laws and would generally be found to be unethical and immoral), not to mention about the masks (remember that BS?...OUTRIGHT LIE!) and we are all supposed to just believe this lying, untrustworthy, potential criminal that may have actually STARTED THIS ENTIRE "PANDEMIC" in the first place?????

Are you seriously kidding me?
Can you not see the outright hypocrisy from this man and those in power around him?
What more do you need to understand that this whole fiasco was blown HUGELY out of proportion, the data is trickling in to show that the shutdowns, masks and vaccines were largely INEFFECTIVE in stopping the spread of the virus (although it MIGHT have been helpful in saving some of the older and most at risk but so MIGHT have Ivermectin and other lesser-known drugs that are NOT being tested as they should be because they want to SELL more vaccines and booster shots....again, you talk about TRUTH in science but why is it taking 2 years into the crises before these drugs are being double-blind tested? Why aren't the large pharmaceutical firms and governments tracking all side effects from the shots/boosters and getting this out to the public, to make an informed decision? (these facts are being omitted and kept from the public, again, that is NOT a conspiracy, it's a FACT). Social media sites are removing video's from people that are explaining their bad reactions and serious health issues they started having soon after receiving the shots/boosters. Doctors are brushing off these patients as having anxiety rather than testing them for serious heart issues.

And just an FYI, I am not an anti-vaccer as I have had vaccines (for small pox, shingles, polio, measels, etc.) and think they are warranted because they help more than they harm, generally. However, I am also old enough to know scientists, doctor's and politicians ALL lie to you in the supposed morally challenged, name of "doing the right thing" or "doing whats best for you" or "because we know more than you" or some other BS unethical statement of intellectual superiority. NOPE, NO THANKS....I know BS when I see and smell it and you need high boots for the crap they are shoveling these past two years......

There is NO reason for kids/teens under 21 to get this vaccination AT ALL and the data PROVES IT!
Why would you make it mandatory?
Why are you forcing young people to potentially get harmful heart complications from a vaccine that has an almost ZERO death rate for this age category?
And this also goes for age ranges from the 20's to 50's, unless there are comorbidities that the data shows might give a greater chance of death....PERIOD, That is what the scientific data shows, that is NOT a conspiracy or anti-vaccine made-up data, it is THEIR official data (even though much of the death data is corrupted due to the giving of money to hospitals for every supposed and unverified "covid" death).

Again, I agree....if you want to get the shot and a booster every year until you die....go ahead, have fun, make a party out of it.......but to make it mandatory in order to keep your job, or go to school or for any other reason is ludicrous, illogical and has NOTHING to do with public health safety. The science shows this, the politicians/doctors/scientists ALL have vested interests in keeping this going in order to make money from it and seize power.

You might also want to ask yourself why so many educated people (PhDs) and doctors/nurses are willing to lose their jobs rather than take this drug.
Why are those in power so adamant at making EVERYONE get this shot regardless of knowing all there is to know about the potential future health consequences and conflicting data showing places the didn't lock down (African countries with low vaccination rates) aren't having the same infection/death rates?