Best Blackhat Forum

OK - first off - Full rep given to the OP, dltbenson.
I've been wanting to get my happy hands on this course for a while now, so thank you!

Next, to hollyshelly: I've been in love with your avatar ever since the first time I saw that.
However, I have to disagree with you and drmindbender1971.

I've been to most, if not all, of Ron's events. Can't even begin to tell you how much I learned or how much he helped change my life for the better.
After learning from him and APPLYING what I learned, I was buying and selling houses and making crazy money.
I would have kept on doing this, and probably been one of those 'gurus' myself, if it hadn't been for the market crash/recession and all the subsequent law changes that came along a few years ago.

I also made some bad business decisions that were no one else's fault but my own.
So I took some time off from real estate investing to get things figured out for myself.
And that's when I happened to stumble upon the wonderful world of Internet Marketing... Offline Consulting, etc.

I tell you, I've been to enough of those real estate boot camps and events to know that there's more shit thrown at those things than a zoo full of horny monkeys. I also know that real estate is NOT for everybody!
It's not for the faint of heart, and if you do it long enough, it will turn you into an a-hole, too.
When you're dealing with the variety of circumstances, situations, problems, egos, pre-existing beliefs, and greed, you're going to have to change a bit in order to keep up with the big boys and girls.

But make NO mistake, my friends... the stuff Ron LeGrand teaches DOES work. And it does work well.
Whenever I have my head out of my ass and use what he teaches rather than what I think will work,
I DO get results. But hey, I'm a guy, and I have massive amounts of testosterone to deal with. lol

I realize that real estate can be as confusing as crap. I know that it's a pain in the ass to deal with all the variables involved with getting deals done - especially in the beginning, when you're still learning all this shit.
Getting your marketing going to generate leads.
Sifting and sorting thru those leads to find the right ones that you can actually do something with (vs. those sellers who can't understand why you can't pay them full price, in cash, plus all their closing costs, and close by noon tomorrow lol).
Presenting them with your offers... and getting one accepted.
Getting the right title company or closing attorney who actually understands what it is you're trying to do and not saying it's illegal. (fuckers)
Finding the right buyer who can perform in the way they need to.
Dealing with those fun-time title issues that come up.
Contractors! Need I say more?
Oh, and let's not forget about loan officers, underwriters, banks, oh my!

I could go on, but you get the idea.

So you see, this is NOT easy shit. There are a TON of issues and challenges you'll need to overcome.

BUT... when you DO close that deal, and get that check (or checks, depending on how the deal is structured),
it's a beautiful thing that takes ALL that pain you experienced up to that point away!

And the way I see it, it's a HELL of a lot better than having to work some miserable, god-awful job that you hate - every single day. Dealing with people you don't like or can't stand. Screw that.

So say what you will about Ron. But I know the truth. This guy is awesome. What he says makes sense - more than just about anyone else. And I've seen most of them. I could name names, but I don't think I need to do that. Nor do I want to.

Is his stuff "Perfect?" Hell no! No one's stuff is! Got news for you: There is no such thing as a 'perfect' course!
Why? Because you can't possibly break through to each and every person who learns this stuff.
Everyone sees and learns differently. Everyone has different experiences that influence HOW they learn.
And let's not forget about individual beliefs... about business. Real Estate. And most importantly, themselves.

But - IMHO - Ron's stuff is some of the best out there... even though there ARE holes in his materials, with regards to the finer details that "Thinker Brains" (as he calls them - people who tend to over-analyze everything) will get caught up in.

Oh - and that $1,000 that banks require you to put up as earnest money deposit?
If that scares you, then don't do deals with banks until you can afford that possible loss. But by that point, you'll already know the game enough to know that you already have a strong buyer's list that someone WILL perform on there.
OR just have decent escape clause like, "subject to satisfactory inspection within 14 days of acceptance," and you should be ok.

Again - this stuff isn't for everybody. But if you want it bad enough, you'll be able to use what is taught to make it work.

Forgive me for writing so much, but I hope this helps someone reading this thread who's open-minded enough to listen to another, experienced perspective.

Thanks for reading and take care. Thanks again to the OP and keep those real estate courses coming!!

--BigDaddy

(06-15-2015 07:38 AM)bigdaddy Wrote: [ -> ]OK - first off - Full rep given to the OP, dltbenson.
I've been wanting to get my happy hands on this course for a while now, so thank you!

Next, to hollyshelly: I've been in love with your avatar ever since the first time I saw that.
However, I have to disagree with you and drmindbender1971.

I've been to most, if not all, of Ron's events. Can't even begin to tell you how much I learned or how much he helped change my life for the better.
After learning from him and APPLYING what I learned, I was buying and selling houses and making crazy money.
I would have kept on doing this, and probably been one of those 'gurus' myself, if it hadn't been for the market crash/recession and all the subsequent law changes that came along a few years ago.

I also made some bad business decisions that were no one else's fault but my own.
So I took some time off from real estate investing to get things figured out for myself.
And that's when I happened to stumble upon the wonderful world of Internet Marketing... Offline Consulting, etc.

I tell you, I've been to enough of those real estate boot camps and events to know that there's more shit thrown at those things than a zoo full of horny monkeys. I also know that real estate is NOT for everybody!
It's not for the faint of heart, and if you do it long enough, it will turn you into an a-hole, too.
When you're dealing with the variety of circumstances, situations, problems, egos, pre-existing beliefs, and greed, you're going to have to change a bit in order to keep up with the big boys and girls.

But make NO mistake, my friends... the stuff Ron LeGrand teaches DOES work. And it does work well.
Whenever I have my head out of my ass and use what he teaches rather than what I think will work,
I DO get results. But hey, I'm a guy, and I have massive amounts of testosterone to deal with. lol

I realize that real estate can be as confusing as crap. I know that it's a pain in the ass to deal with all the variables involved with getting deals done - especially in the beginning, when you're still learning all this shit.
Getting your marketing going to generate leads.
Sifting and sorting thru those leads to find the right ones that you can actually do something with (vs. those sellers who can't understand why you can't pay them full price, in cash, plus all their closing costs, and close by noon tomorrow lol).
Presenting them with your offers... and getting one accepted.
Getting the right title company or closing attorney who actually understands what it is you're trying to do and not saying it's illegal. (fuckers)
Finding the right buyer who can perform in the way they need to.
Dealing with those fun-time title issues that come up.
Contractors! Need I say more?
Oh, and let's not forget about loan officers, underwriters, banks, oh my!

I could go on, but you get the idea.

So you see, this is NOT easy shit. There are a TON of issues and challenges you'll need to overcome.

BUT... when you DO close that deal, and get that check (or checks, depending on how the deal is structured),
it's a beautiful thing that takes ALL that pain you experienced up to that point away!

And the way I see it, it's a HELL of a lot better than having to work some miserable, god-awful job that you hate - every single day. Dealing with people you don't like or can't stand. Screw that.

So say what you will about Ron. But I know the truth. This guy is awesome. What he says makes sense - more than just about anyone else. And I've seen most of them. I could name names, but I don't think I need to do that. Nor do I want to.

Is his stuff "Perfect?" Hell no! No one's stuff is! Got news for you: There is no such thing as a 'perfect' course!
Why? Because you can't possibly break through to each and every person who learns this stuff.
Everyone sees and learns differently. Everyone has different experiences that influence HOW they learn.
And let's not forget about individual beliefs... about business. Real Estate. And most importantly, themselves.

But - IMHO - Ron's stuff is some of the best out there... even though there ARE holes in his materials, with regards to the finer details that "Thinker Brains" (as he calls them - people who tend to over-analyze everything) will get caught up in.

Oh - and that $1,000 that banks require you to put up as earnest money deposit?
If that scares you, then don't do deals with banks until you can afford that possible loss. But by that point, you'll already know the game enough to know that you already have a strong buyer's list that someone WILL perform on there.
OR just have decent escape clause like, "subject to satisfactory inspection within 14 days of acceptance," and you should be ok.

Again - this stuff isn't for everybody. But if you want it bad enough, you'll be able to use what is taught to make it work.

Forgive me for writing so much, but I hope this helps someone reading this thread who's open-minded enough to listen to another, experienced perspective.

Thanks for reading and take care. Thanks again to the OP and keep those real estate courses coming!!

--BigDaddy

I respect your opinion. However I have my info from both spending thousands on Ron's junk as well as from my mentor who used to be a speaker in that circle. Notice I said the words Used to be. He distanced himself from that crowd after learning what those people are really like and all about. The sad truth is most of the people who are teaching that junk don't do deals. They make their money on their publishing products and mentoring. I was like you until I got the real inside scoop. I blindly followed the crap they put out even though it got me absolutely nowhere except for further and further into debt. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people who have used Ron's techniques in the past have ended up getting called into court for practicing real estate without a license. Case in point...Look at this current Big money in chunks product. It starts out with talking about this very subject. He had only recently changed his deal structure because so many people who call themselves students of Ron got spanked by the law. There are much much better ways to learn the game. Some of which don't even cost money if you know who to talk to. The thing you want to ask yourself before taking the advice of sharks is, is your current lifestyle and freedom worth losing for the sake of trying to start a business based on the information from a former Carny. Yes folks, you read that right. A former Carny. You can tell I have the inside scoop as he doesn't give that little bit of information out to his poor suckers who he's trying to sell to. That information is only divulged to people who are close enough to be called his friends.

Quote:The thing you want to ask yourself before taking the advice of sharks is, is your current lifestyle and freedom worth losing for the sake of trying to start a business based on the information from a former Carny. Yes folks, you read that right. A former Carny. You can tell I have the inside scoop as he doesn't give that little bit of information out to his poor suckers who he's trying to sell to. That information is only divulged to people who are close enough to be called his friends.

No need to belabor this much further really, but I would say the truth lies somewhere between both of your opinions. There are a lot of people out there who DID make a lot of money from Ron's info (myself included) back before the crash, where I think sh*t-slinging monkey as one of you said, could sign a loan document, hold a property I a hot maket for three days and then sell for a profit- So Ron was at the height of the "zeitgeist" I think it's fair to say-

And the flood of so-called "gurus" that rushed into the fray due to Ron? Robyn Thompson, Jeff Kaller, Kris Kristofersson Kringle (you know who I mean), Marco Kozlowski (remember him? One of the craziest and most arrogant presentations I've ever seen), Kathy Kennebrook, the list goes on and on...

THEN the CRASH came, and everybody scurried like roaches under the floor boards- Ron's courses on Ebay, which before 2007-2008 were selling for hundreds and even thousands a pop, were now being trickled in for a mere 50 bucks-

So again, I'm not entirely sure that it was so much that Ron was a great teacher, or just riding the wave of easy real estate money, especially for the time in Southern California, Nevada/Vegas, Arizona, Florida, etc.

But yes, Ron WAS definitely a Carny, I don't believe he ever even acknowledged it with any kind of shame, just matter of factly discussed it in his Cash Flow courses, and again mentioned it in his Platform Speaking and Sales course (FANTASTIC marketing and speaking course by the way)- When Dan Kennedy, who was up on the panel along with Ron, heard Ron divulge his illustrious carnival background, Dan replied,

"Well THAT explains a lot!"

LOL-

Thanks, hollyshelly, for reminding me about who this dude is; the name sounded familiar, but I wasn't quite sure ...nice tits, by the way!

(06-15-2015 12:05 AM)hollyshelly Wrote: [ -> ]Ron is a scamming dbag. It's surprising he is still swindling money out of people after he almost went out of business a few years back. And it wasn't for the reasons he tells people. He used to take people for $25k plus a pop as mentoring students and they wouldn't see a dime worth of value for their purchase. I've heard first hand from former speakers in his loop that it is amazing the guy is still walking around and hasn't been taken out by a disgruntled redneck with an itchy trigger finger. People have lost whole lifetime savings because of this M****. If you want to spin your wheels and do zero deals, go ahead and listen to Ron. Then when you lose your ass, find someone who is Actually Doing Deals to mentor you instead of wasting money on rehashed outdated b.s. courses with holes bigger than the grand canyon in them.

(06-15-2015 08:57 AM)Theo1 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:The thing you want to ask yourself before taking the advice of sharks is, is your current lifestyle and freedom worth losing for the sake of trying to start a business based on the information from a former Carny. Yes folks, you read that right. A former Carny. You can tell I have the inside scoop as he doesn't give that little bit of information out to his poor suckers who he's trying to sell to. That information is only divulged to people who are close enough to be called his friends.

No need to belabor this much further really, but I would say the truth lies somewhere between both of your opinions. There are a lot of people out there who DID make a lot of money from Ron's info (myself included) back before the crash, where I think sh*t-slinging monkey as one of you said, could sign a loan document, hold a property I a hot maket for three days and then sell for a profit- So Ron was at the height of the "zeitgeist" I think it's fair to say-

And the flood of so-called "gurus" that rushed into the fray due to Ron? Robyn Thompson, Jeff Kaller, Kris Kristofersson Kringle (you know who I mean), Marco Kozlowski (remember him? One of the craziest and most arrogant presentations I've ever seen), Kathy Kennebrook, the list goes on and on...

THEN the CRASH came, and everybody scurried like roaches under the floor boards- Ron's courses on Ebay, which before 2007-2008 were selling for hundreds and even thousands a pop, were now being trickled in for a mere 50 bucks-

So again, I'm not entirely sure that it was so much that Ron was a great teacher, or just riding the wave of easy real estate money, especially for the time in Southern California, Nevada/Vegas, Arizona, Florida, etc.

But yes, Ron WAS definitely a Carny, I don't believe he ever even acknowledged it with any kind of shame, just matter of factly discussed it in his Cash Flow courses, and again mentioned it in his Platform Speaking and Sales course (FANTASTIC marketing and speaking course by the way)- When Dan Kennedy, who was up on the panel along with Ron, heard Ron divulge his illustrious carnival background, Dan replied,

"Well THAT explains a lot!"

LOL-

Lol who can forget Marco. He literally had to flee the country.

And I do want to send a big thanks to the OP. Keep on educating and posting. Good or bad, it's good to have a real estate related discussion here. Wish there were more posts like this. A bad real estate course is better for the most part than a mediocre wso. The profit potential in real estate is amazing if you can get on the right track.

(06-15-2015 02:00 PM)hollyshelly Wrote: [ -> ]And I do want to send a big thanks to the OP. Keep on educating and posting. Good or bad, it's good to have a real estate related discussion here. Wish there were more posts like this. A bad real estate course is better for the most part than a mediocre wso. The profit potential in real estate is amazing if you can get on the right track.

Agreed!

i second that!

Hey, this is actually a pretty cool thread! I like how the lot of us are actually experienced real estate people.
HollyShelly: Yeah, I was actually in that circle, too! And I DO know a lot of the 'behind the scenes' stuff.
Every single person that was mentioned here I personally know. Have hung out with. Even been to some of their houses (Ron included).
And yeah, of course I knew that he was a former 'carny.' Also a mechanic after that.

I have that speaker/marketer boot camp (somewhere on one of my hard drives). And I agree w/ you - it is a great course.
They reveal the real poop in there.

I might have to send you a PM to compare notes/ideas on some things, if you don't mind.

And I TOTALLY agree that we DO need more real estate-related posts on here! Hell yeah.
The opportunities are all around us and getting hotter all the time.

I still say that the main SKILLS that are worth everything to acquire include:
-Selling/salesmanship (absolutely essential)
-Communication (I think MOST problems in this world are results of a breakdown in communication)
-Marketing (another critically essential skill)
-Negotiation ("You don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate!")
-Deal Structuring (if you don't know how to put a deal together, you might as well just be a bird-dog)
-Organization and Following up (your best list is the one you've built and that you can follow up with)

Those are just a few things off the top of my head. There's plenty more, but I've gotta run now.

Keep this thread going, guys!! I really enjoy getting these different perspectives on this!

--BigDaddy

Not to hijack this thread i have lots (hundreds like 2tb worth) of real estate investing and realtor courses
whats the best way to upload a large volume? Let me know and ill get it done for everyone.

I would love to see more real estate stuff here too