Honest Copywriting - is there such a thing ??

[Lumos]

Long ago (before learning of BBHF...!) I got into the Awai program about it, and got very discouraged as it basically told its students that copywriting is all about exaggerating, tricking, stretching the truth, and outright lying.
That is what all I got out of it.

Trouble is (for me) - my 20+ career success depended almost totally upon my many clients KNOWING that I don't do any of that tricky stuff.
(Competence also helped, of course.)

No candy coating for this old guy - I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Straight up - no BS - if that gets somebody's knickers in a knot - sucks to be them - BUT:
Being open, honest and truthful allows me a sort of peace that seems quite rare and which I value tremendously.

The result of me being me also means that I totally suck at any 'normal' sorts of selling too and I've learned to be OK with that shortcoming.

Soooo....copywriting...
Is there any a way to be a GOOD copywriter while remaining true to one's self, honest and NOT selling one's soul for the sake of $$$ ??

[milan1frank]

Undeniable proof that what you sell works for others and the biggest hurdle is that your buyer believes they can achieve similar results and not have buyers remorse. Curiosity helps build the desire with blind bullets copy or get really good at telling intriguing stories related to your offers that make others want to buy your product but if what you're selling/marketing via copywriting is crap then don't bother with any copy hype.

1. Undeniable proof your offer works.
2. Captivating storytelling
3. Your customers believe in themselves they can actually put your offer to good use and not have buyer's remorse because they lack the confidence in themselves in applying what they just bought.

[GetStuffDone]

(05-15-2021 10:04 AM)smithnowt Wrote:  Long ago (before learning of BBHF...!) I got into the Awai program about it, and got very discouraged as it basically told its students that copywriting is all about exaggerating, tricking, stretching the truth, and outright lying.
That is what all I got out of it.

Trouble is (for me) - my 20+ career success depended almost totally upon my many clients KNOWING that I don't do any of that tricky stuff.
(Competence also helped, of course.)

No candy coating for this old guy - I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

Straight up - no BS - if that gets somebody's knickers in a knot - sucks to be them - BUT:
Being open, honest and truthful allows me a sort of peace that seems quite rare and which I value tremendously.

The result of me being me also means that I totally suck at any 'normal' sorts of selling too and I've learned to be OK with that shortcoming.

Soooo....copywriting...
Is there any a way to be a GOOD copywriter while remaining true to one's self, honest and NOT selling one's soul for the sake of $$$ ??

Are you prospecting for some affiliate offer here?

And trying to prove that you dont lie because your affiliate offer is so hype that noone could ever trust you?

We all know that copy that works is not about hype.

Whats more telling this about AWAi is just funny.

Show us the course and the line where you heard that!!!!! and the line where you heard about lies and all that.

Im sure 100% there is no such a course by AWAI!!!!!

[AbeLincolnBart]

(05-15-2021 01:50 PM)milan1frank Wrote:  Undeniable proof that what you sell works for others and the biggest hurdle is that your buyer believes they can achieve similar results and not have buyers remorse. Curiosity helps build the desire with blind bullets copy or get really good at telling intriguing stories related to your offers that make others want to buy your product but if what you're selling/marketing via copywriting is crap then don't bother with any copy hype.

1. Undeniable proof your offer works.
2. Captivating storytelling
3. Your customers believe in themselves they can actually put your offer to good use and not have buyer's remorse because they lack the confidence in themselves in applying what they just bought.

Thanks 'milan1frank' for the above post. I agree heartily that those are huge factors in this discussion.

Before I go forward:
I am far from being a “saint”.
I am seriously flawed in many ways.
(After all, this is a Blackhat forum that operates solely because of the reality of information flow in an “information age”....)

-----

I have a good friend Dennis (who's never visited this forum...), who absolutely HATES sales, salesmen..., anything having to do with promotion of any kind. Every time he needs to get a car or other significant purchase (house, etc), he enlists me to either accompany him or just go and completely deal with it as his proxy.

I'm sure you wouldn't be shocked that he is extremely susceptible to sales pitches. And very likely the main reason he distrusts sales and advertising - anything that smells like promotion of any kind. And maybe (additionally) because his parents lost their house and went into bankruptcy when he was 12 because his father believed the sales pitch of a religion that took all they had because the “end was coming”.

But, Dennis trusts me.

Because he KNOWS he can trust me. We share a similar code of behavior and he's seen me in action for 30+ years.

And yet, Dennis knows that I've made my living for 40 years by being an unapologetic copywriter/salesman – who believes that there is no more noble calling than being a skilled wordsmith.

Even though it was completely unintended – I've sufficiently sold him on the belief that he can trust me.

So, to be absolutely accurate; Dennis doesn't really hate all salesmen and pitches – he just hates salesmen and pitches that are false.

-----

The highest paid copywriters are those who have high standards and a high level code of behavior.

You probably won't make the biggest money out of the gate, but after you sell high quality product consistently for years – your compensation starts going parabolic as companies and individuals with high quality product(s) grasp onto you and insist that only you shall write their campaigns.

And, unless you morph into an idiot – your life is going to be hard to beat from then on. Then it'll come down to what kind of percentage deals you make to determine whether you make $1MM/yr or $10MM/yr or $50MM/yr.

-----

So how do you start down the road to be an honest, successful copywriter?

• You should only write for products that deliver great value, preferably in a growing niche.
• Be one-of-a-kind. Be unique like a Ben Settle or Doberman Dan. You don't have to be like them, just be completely unique, valid and interesting to your readers.
• Tell the truth about the benefits and flaws of your offer in interesting ways. Keep aware of what your target audience is experiencing so your offer is totally unique.
• Always have some form of risk-reversal (to eliminate all risk to the buyer).
• Remember that almost all copywriting courses are just wordy versions of “The Irresistible Offer” by Mark Joyner.
• And, most important of all – pick yourself up after missteps and failures and go back at it again.
  

AbeLincolnBart

[layna61524]

Thank you for that post, AbeLincolnBart.

I feel a lot like your friend, Dennis except that when it comes to being susceptible to sales pitches, I'm the polar opposite. I can smell the BS a mile away. Still, I don't care for promoters and many copywriters for that very reason.

You can often see through all the crappy writing and in some cases, you can feel that they either don't know the product they're promoting sufficiently or they just don't care.

But copywriters with a heart and conscience --- that's another breed. And I believe that's what you're talking about.

I'm no copywriter but I enjoy promoting products by word of mouth when they do exactly what (or more than) they were supposed to.

Just the other day, I got a PM from someone asking if I had an affiliate link to the premium link converter tool I had posted so often about. I had to tell them I didn't. I'm not an affiliate for any product. When I talk about the benefits I got from a product, it's like sharing information with a friend. I don't do it it get paid.

I'm not trying to make "getting paid" sound like the F-word because money makes the world go round, but when money enters the equation, you have to wonder if someone is really excited about the benefits of a product they are promoting or they simply have dollar signs in their eyes.

Rarely is there a healthy balance of both.

But copywriting is different. I understand that copywriters get paid for their ability to influence ordinary people to buy.

It's just that lately, there has been a shift and it won't be long before people will be trained to trust faces they see on TV (celebs) or read about in the tabloids/gossip rags.

What with all the corporations eager to get their brands on social media and the throngs of young "influencers" who hawk these products to their millions of followers just for a hefty pay check, advertising as we know it is shifting to a new age and I'm not sure if that's good.

Right now, the trust factor in advertising is being compromised; before long, it will be completely eroded.


Layna61524

[aminoacid]

After several years participating in this forum and several thousands
posts, some people still don't know that they should follow the rules
and don't post their questions where they want... Crazy !

[BlackTopHat]

Layna wrote:
"It's just that lately, there has been a shift and it won't be long before people will be trained to trust faces they see on TV (celebs) or read about in the tabloids/gossip rags."

Long since done. Infotainment Jackpot speaks to this nicely.

[Lumos]

Wow - this got super deep - and also meaningful - thanks for the great replies Folks !!
(Except for #6 which seems quite odd and definitely unhelpful.)

ALB hit it right on - I'm more than a little bit like his friend Dennis.

In my youth there were immediate family members that were very proud of their abilities to 'sell' whatever they could manipulate other folks into via any form of dishonesty possible - which always amused them greatly and had them bragging about their endless dirty deeds.

I was always the kid who saw the good in everyone though - and so:
That brought me many pain filled life lessons (even from my own sister) showing me how dark and devious people could actually be, despite what previously HAD BEEN my chosen outlook.

Back then as it turned out, 2 of my 3 most immediate relatives were that sort of maximum devious and even tried combining their 'talents', tag-teaming to try and con me for their amusements pretty much endlessly.

Result:
By the age of 25 I had learned of my ABSOLUTE need to make a 'fearless moral inventory' of my life and thereby choose whom I would allow near to me (or not...) anymore from the time of that effort, onward.

This helped me to turn my back on all such folks whose lives centered upon manipulating others to their wills irresponsibly, and...:

I've never looked back upon those conscious choices with even a single crumb of regret...AT ALL, EVER.

Now:
Here I am, ~40 years later and my life has been very full as well as being made good by my own efforts in remaining true to myself - while also learning the art of living deliberately in a very honest and minimalistic sort of manner.

So, in reply to post #2 here:
That info is beyond my depth within this subject - I will have to study more to grasp it, sincere thanks to Milan1frank for sharing it.

And in reply to post #3:
I am promoting EXACTLY NOTHING here or anyplace - and what I meant in the OP was about the impression that I got from going through that AWAI course some years back and NOT quoting their materials chapter and verse AT ALL - merely my take-away from what I'd been exposed to in their materials.

Yes, they do now have their 'COPYWRITING FOR A CAUSE' course, which may be wonderful and honesty based...I didn't get that one.

Layna spoke very wisely here of how things have become since 2020 struck all of us:

(05-16-2021 07:18 AM)layna61524 Wrote:  I'm not trying to make "getting paid" sound like the F-word because money makes the world go round, but when money enters the equation, you have to wonder if someone is really excited about the benefits of a product they are promoting or they simply have dollar signs in their eyes.

<snipped for brevity>

Right now, the trust factor in advertising is being compromised; before long, it will be completely eroded.

And BlackTopHat's affirmation is also quite admirably aimed in that exact same direction.

I will be spending some time studying and working to grasp what ALB has contributed here;
I also extend my sincerest thanks to ALB for sharing his experiences and wisdom so openly with all of us here at BBHF.

The biggest learning about IM and MMO for me thus far has been the amazement resulting from witnessing my own BS detector's shrieking at it all so very much of the time as being 100% correct - hence my query in this exact section regarding the core of this subject itself.

I send out my Best Wishes to ALL for Happiness, Prosperity and Perfect Health !!

[layna61524]

Thanks for your insight, smithnowt. I see you mentioned that you don't have AWAI's Copywriting for a Cause. I shared it recently. If the link is still good, you can grab it from this thread:

COPYWRITING FOR A CAUSE

Magic Button :

Code:

.
http://bestblackhatforum.com/Thread-GET-AWAI-COPYWRITING-FOR-A-CAUSE
.

Layna61524

[Lumos]

After reading through ALB's reply here a few times I also did a search for the info he mentioned, and found a share of it offered by StillStanding in 2014, here:

http://bestblackhatforum.com/Thread-GET-...ds-or-Less

And the link to Solidfiles from it is still active, so I got that to check out.

Knowing that I am able to produce 1/2 decent written verbiage and just need to make my way past the needs to type anything I make - I am reconsidering my way forward including the offers and pointers given in this thread.

Thanks Folks, and...
I send out my Best Wishes to ALL for Happiness, Prosperity and Perfect Health !!